Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#191

Post by DataJunkie » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 7:02 AM UTC

antpls wrote: post #175

azurezyq wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: Googler managing a small product engineering team. I have to say WFH has a considerable impact on productivity. Coding is actually fine, but the problems are: 1. Designing over VC is very difficult, especially for something entirely new. 3~4 people working on a single whiteboard is far more efficient. 2. Personal relationships are difficult to grow, especially for newbies. Usually those things got grown v…

Sorry, I disagree. 1. All you need to do a remote whiteboard is a microphone and a mouse. This is a great opportunity to create new softwares that actually help collaboration and improve the design process rather than being stuck forever with a pen and a paper. 2. What you call "personal relationship" is, at the end of the day, employee relationship and politic to be promoted. You are in a long term position of power…

So many Googlers are stuck a decade or two back. It's astonishing to see considering how innovative and forward thinking Google used to be.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#192

Post by helmholtz » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 7:02 AM UTC

tudorconstantin wrote: post #159

hyko wrote: post #140

When will introverts realise that their working conditions are being dictated to them by extroverts? The pandemic-driven remote working is hell for some people, and unfortunately they call the shots. I don’t mind coming into your office now and again (there’s a special dimension to IRL connections), but the reason I don’t want to work there full time is that it’s crap for knowledge work. I outspend you by 10x per hea…

I'm totally not an introvert: I love being around nice people, I love playing table tennis and having lunch with my colleagues. But wasting 1h-2h daily on commuting to/from work is in absolutely no way worthy of this. It's our duty as human beings to resist going back to the office as much as possible. To gain back some of the life we otherwise would spend on commute. Work is for work, not for socializing, or having…

I never understand why long commutes aren't "Pants On Fire" emergencies for people. If you're driving two hours every day, and not spending all your free time wondering how you can either change jobs or change housing, well, it's a finite life that you're pissing away.

I'm certain that there will be an outpouring of hundreds of reasons why people cannot move, and I'm sure all of those reasons have merit. But it doesn't change the fact that long commutes are a huge detriment to work/life balance.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#193

Post by derwiki » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 7:03 AM UTC

izacus wrote: post #178

Cd00d wrote: post #151

I'm a little shocked by this. I thought the big tech companies and Google specifically were leading the charge in "we will allow significant WFH forever going forward", but maybe I wasn't paying enough attention. Personally, I'm at a small data company, and we're opening a new office for people where WFH is a burden (NYC apartments and all), but is so far voluntary. In fact, I think there are only seats for less than…

Ok, so I'm a bit surprised by these responses. Google is obviously a company that marketed itself majorly by their extensive offices with perks like free food, coffee, snacks, gyms, etc. Their office design, campus and related perks were always on the forefront of their pitch. I don't quite understand why you'd expect them to be on the forefront of WFH.

At the beginning of the pandemic, their policies seemed aligned with WFH. Surprising to hear the opposite so soon.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#194

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 7:03 AM UTC

izacus wrote: post #180

blub wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most people home office makes sense for practical reasons - long commute, spending more time with the family, living in a nicer / cheaper location but having a well paying job. On the other hand, extreme introverts that don't tolerate working in an office are a tiny minority and should dictate the working conditions even less than the extroverts. Personally I tend toward introvert (it's not black and white) and h…

Is long commute something that's normal for "most people"? Most people around here have commutes shorter than 30 minutes one way.

This is the thing, right. The problem isn't remote or office per se, it's the commute to and from the office that's the issue. I can definitely focus more at home, but I really miss my 30 minute bike commute.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#195

Post by danans » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 7:03 AM UTC

izacus wrote: post #180

blub wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most people home office makes sense for practical reasons - long commute, spending more time with the family, living in a nicer / cheaper location but having a well paying job. On the other hand, extreme introverts that don't tolerate working in an office are a tiny minority and should dictate the working conditions even less than the extroverts. Personally I tend toward introvert (it's not black and white) and h…

Is long commute something that's normal for "most people"? Most people around here have commutes shorter than 30 minutes one way.

Commute length and comfort is often inversely proportional to income.

Sometimes you end up in a job with no good transit routes from where you can afford to live, so you have to drive hours a day. Search the web for stories about "supercommuters".

Compared to any of that, a 30 min bike ride is downright lovely.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#196

Post by DataJunkie » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 7:03 AM UTC

wu_187 wrote: post #182

frongpik wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or even simpler: execs own super expensive real estate in the tech hubs and the only thing that supports the prices is the hoards of employees that have to live in the area.

This is the true answer. A lot of people have moved into far away (cheaper) bedroom communities to save money. Also Google themselves would have a huge issue justifying their own real estate if people aren't in it "post covid". They are a publicly traded company so they would be forced to sell it off to appease investors. All in all I think Google has shown it's true colors here. They don't have a damn about their em…

> All in all I think Google has shown it's true colors here. They don't have a damn about their employees.

That's exactly how I feel.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#197

Post by wu_187 » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 7:07 AM UTC

skocznymroczny wrote: post #186

I enjoy working from home. If reopening offices means going back to the office and having to sit in a mask for eight hours a day, no thank you.

This is why we need unions. Do employees get to sue Alphabet if they get covid from the office?

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#198

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 7:11 AM UTC

doktorhladnjak wrote: post #169

dividefuel wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Googler, opinions are my own) I don't think Google has really justified why the return to the office is necessary for all employees, beyond saying that it's a key part of the culture. Obviously the office is a part of the culture, and most employees want to be in the office at least some of the time. But to me, that doesn't explain why you can't offer a remote option for the employees who want it. A charitable expla…

Google has some of the best offices in the world. They’ve built up these offices as a clear differentiator from their talent competitors. It’s lead to many companies offering free lunch and other perks tied to their physical space. Giving it up would mean changing the culture and the value prop of working there. I can’t say I’m surprised they don’t want to do that.

Yeah, I do agree. It's odd that FB are doing so differently from them, though. When I worked in a FAANG, they had lots of issues with senior level engineer retention. Generally loads of people left when they wanted to start a family.

I guess FB must have seen the same thing, hence full remote for senior engineers. It's odd that Google haven't experienced this issue.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#199

Post by ohthehugemanate » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 7:12 AM UTC

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers need to be physically colocated to be productive, because that's how it worked when he was coming up at WordPerfect or whatever. Backing it is also a group of people who have a lot to gain from it politically.

At my employer we have some pockets of embarrassing leadership like this, but thankfully I haven't seen it in anyone senior enough to make global policy like this. My department is letting go of remote teams and only hiring in a handful of cities around the world, while ramping up office space spending. It's more expensive, less flexible, and less productive... and everyone knows it. But I guess it makes some people feel important, and it's how some others remember developing when they last did it 20 years ago. So it's happening anyway, and many of their best engineers are now on the market.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#200

Post by edem » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 7:12 AM UTC

tudorconstantin wrote: post #159

hyko wrote: post #140

When will introverts realise that their working conditions are being dictated to them by extroverts? The pandemic-driven remote working is hell for some people, and unfortunately they call the shots. I don’t mind coming into your office now and again (there’s a special dimension to IRL connections), but the reason I don’t want to work there full time is that it’s crap for knowledge work. I outspend you by 10x per hea…

I'm totally not an introvert: I love being around nice people, I love playing table tennis and having lunch with my colleagues. But wasting 1h-2h daily on commuting to/from work is in absolutely no way worthy of this. It's our duty as human beings to resist going back to the office as much as possible. To gain back some of the life we otherwise would spend on commute. Work is for work, not for socializing, or having…

I cannot agree more. If I have to choose between spending time with my kid or actual friends vs sitting in my car commuting it is an absolute no brainer. Thankfully I have been a contractor for a while and I don't need to put up with this nonsense anymore.