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Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

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Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#191
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 30% cut was considered very good at the time. It was way better than the 50-90% cut that traditional publishers would take. A sibling comment notes that Steam charged 30% at the time (though some had better deals) but it's worth noting that Steam was not an open platform that anyone could publish on. Much like for consoles, to put a game on Steam you had to have a preexisting relationship with Valve, or try to de…

> The 30% cut was considered very good at the time. It was way better than the 50-90% cut that traditional publishers would take. Why didn't Steve Jobs go with web distribution of first class web apps or allow Flash on his platform? If they truly wanted to be remarkable, this would have been the future. The answer is control. Apple is a cutthroat business just like any other, and their "privacy first" veneer is just…

> Why didn't Steve Jobs go with web distribution of first class web apps

That was exactly his intent when he announced the iPhone, and he got absolutely obliterated by the internet for it.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#192
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 30% cut was considered very good at the time. It was way better than the 50-90% cut that traditional publishers would take. A sibling comment notes that Steam charged 30% at the time (though some had better deals) but it's worth noting that Steam was not an open platform that anyone could publish on. Much like for consoles, to put a game on Steam you had to have a preexisting relationship with Valve, or try to de…

> The 30% cut was considered very good at the time. It was way better than the 50-90% cut that traditional publishers would take. Why didn't Steve Jobs go with web distribution of first class web apps or allow Flash on his platform? If they truly wanted to be remarkable, this would have been the future. The answer is control. Apple is a cutthroat business just like any other, and their "privacy first" veneer is just…

Not allowing Flash on the iPhone is probably the best thing Apple ever did

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#193
post #163
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 30% cut was considered very good at the time. It was way better than the 50-90% cut that traditional publishers would take. A sibling comment notes that Steam charged 30% at the time (though some had better deals) but it's worth noting that Steam was not an open platform that anyone could publish on. Much like for consoles, to put a game on Steam you had to have a preexisting relationship with Valve, or try to de…

This is such a nonsense justification. You want to sell software you wrote to run on an iphone. You have zero choice. Apple tax your revenue. You want to sell software you wrote to run on a pc. Steam is not your only choice. I am not defending steam or valve here, I've never sold anything using their stuff, nor am I suggesting anything other than that their market power over pc compared to apple's store over the ipho…

The situation on Android shows us that consumers like consolidation and they like walled gardens and simple choices. These things benefit them. Plenty of Android phones come with 2 or 3 app stores. One for the carrier, one for the vendor and Google Play Store. There plenty are others as well, but the market has spoken. Even Epic had to fold and move to Play Store. Maybe Google played dirty, but I think it's perfectly clear users benefit from consolidation. They like the simplicity of having everything in one store and when they change devices they just set up their Play Store account and there everything is. That's a massive advantage to them. Fragmentation is a nightmare.

Developers have come to the same conclusion, it's to their benefit for the customers to all be on one store with one set of policies and features so that's where the majority of the apps go.

So what are you going to do, force Apple to become a fragmented Android copy with multiple stores and side loading that a tiny fraction of techies actually use? Those people already have that on Android if they want it. Honestly you'd just screw over Apple and a few other people over a principle hardly anybody actually cares about or benefits from. It certainly wouldn't make any significant commercial difference. We ran that experiment and the results are in.

The idea that users would all be side loading apps and developers would be making far more money having their apps spread across 5+ different stores that would compete down to lower prices is delusional. If that were the case, why has this not happened on Windows or MacOS where side loading is actually the default yet Steam, GOG, etc still charge 30%? It's crystal clear that's just the split the market has converged on through a competitive process. After all Steam has competed from day one with a default split of nothing for direct downloads from the software publisher but has thrived charging 30%. If that's not direct market validation I don't know what is.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 30% cut was considered very good at the time. It was way better than the 50-90% cut that traditional publishers would take. Why didn't Steve Jobs go with web distribution of first class web apps or allow Flash on his platform? If they truly wanted to be remarkable, this would have been the future. The answer is control. Apple is a cutthroat business just like any other, and their "privacy first" veneer is just…

Not allowing Flash on the iPhone is probably the best thing Apple ever did

Destroying an open, low barrier to entry animation and application platform that was used by teenagers to develop and share interactive content?

Destroying a way to deliver native-like, cross-platform applications without an app store was good?

Jobs did it for control. He didn't want interop between Android and iPhone, and he didn't want any web browser with enough flexibility to do anything sophisticated.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that telemetry is inherently bad. As product engineers, telemetry is often our only visibility into whether or not a system is functioning healthily. How else can you detect difficult-to-spot bugs in production?

As a software engineer I disagree. You are saying that you want to collect my personal information so you can fix your bugs. I don't see it being a valuable trade. I'll just find someone who can fix their bugs without tracking me.

Personal information is a bit nebulous. Do we consider the list of function calls in a stack trace "personal information"?

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#197
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 30% cut was considered very good at the time. It was way better than the 50-90% cut that traditional publishers would take. A sibling comment notes that Steam charged 30% at the time (though some had better deals) but it's worth noting that Steam was not an open platform that anyone could publish on. Much like for consoles, to put a game on Steam you had to have a preexisting relationship with Valve, or try to de…

> The 30% cut was considered very good at the time. It was way better than the 50-90% cut that traditional publishers would take. Why didn't Steve Jobs go with web distribution of first class web apps or allow Flash on his platform? If they truly wanted to be remarkable, this would have been the future. The answer is control. Apple is a cutthroat business just like any other, and their "privacy first" veneer is just…

'First class web apps' was precisely how you were supposed to create apps for the first iPhone; the SDK was thrown together over the next year only after the huge demand for writing native apps. The iPhone pushed a bunch of device access web APIs originally explicitly for this reason.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that telemetry is inherently bad. As product engineers, telemetry is often our only visibility into whether or not a system is functioning healthily. How else can you detect difficult-to-spot bugs in production?

Once upon a time fixing bugs in production didn't happen because the product got all the bugs out before production. If it had bugs in production, the product failed.

When that was true, several decades ago, products generally had upwards of 2 years of design/architecture/engineering effort and definitions prior to another 3-5 years of development.

It still (sometimes) happens for medical, aerospace and other transportation software that interfaces with hardware where safety is a concern.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#199
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think anyone is saying that iOS does report back to Apple (and I don’t think there is any evidence that iOS does this). The original concern was caused because iOS would still activate location services and display the icon during these checks, even if you had turned location services off completely in settings.

That is exactly what the article is talking about.

I’m not sure which article your looking at, but neither the OP article, or the Kerbs article suggests that Apple is collecting location data derived from location services on a phone and sending it back to the mothership.

The OP article suggests that IP data from the uploads could be used to estimate location, and their table has a “location” column. But that column seems to be referencing the fact that iOS reports when location services are turned on and off, rather than a specific location derived from the phones sensors.

This is of course ignoring opt-in telemetry which is used to improve maps etc. Which obviously involves sending your location back to Apple.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#200
I'm waiting for a traffic analysis to turn up that Google gathers location, wifi APs and cell towers even when all possible consent is revoked. Because, with Google's greed, no way I'm believing that they would give that up, and I'm not turning the location service on.

Reminder that Google literally provides a location database for US cops, who are getting bulk data on people simply being in some place at some time and doing nothing wrong: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/13/technology/google-sensorv... Meanwhile other countries want to make Google store that data on their territory when it's about their citizens.

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