Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

eu.usatoday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 1001 posts

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#191

Post by ttt0 »

mancerayder wrote: post #163
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I'm assuming he was arguing that, given that the major social media platforms have said they will remove any Covid information that is misleading, would they even allow posts like this "suggesting the possibility of a Wuhan lab leak is plausible". Note Facebook has previously explicitly banned posts "falsely claiming the virus is man-made". Source: https://www.npr.org/2021/02/08/965390755/facebook-widens-…

That's exactly it. They're not trying to crack down on misinformation, they're just trying to create a monopoly wherein established outlets are able to filter what's True and grey out what is False or Misleading.

They're fact-checking goddamn memes. Recently they "fact-checked" a meme with Joker on it and text "The truth will set you free. Except on Facebook, where it will get you a 30 day ban", and called it "missing context". Now the entire fanpage is gone.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#192

Post by varjag »

tehjoker wrote: post #161

Pretty incredible how far the US media will go to deflect attention from how bad the US response to the pandemic was to China. "Let me be clear: Labs in Wuhan might not have played any role in the origin of the pandemic. But a year later, no source has been found, and the world deserves a thorough, unbiased investigation of all plausible theories that is conducted without fear or favor." Okay. So basically this autho…

No, the evidence is there's a relevant viral research lab in the epicentre with known history of safety issues and no animal transmission link have been confirmed.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#193

Post by echelon »

dragontamer wrote: post #168
echelon wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CDC and other US government officials, on the other hand, must ratchet up their criticism of China as well as WHO. I agree with you there. It's alarming that there are so few PR ramifications for China. The US relies on Chinese manufacturing. If trade ends, the West will suffer. Consumer and industrial goods can't be built, which could incredibly damage the economy. Manufacturing is shifting to other countries - Vi…

> China is building up its navy to protect itself. If they lose the South China Sea, they could be blockaded and starved of energy, resources, and food. They're building to reach parity with the US Navy or even outgun it, and they're trying to stall long enough that they can win should there be an encounter. China has absolutely no chance to meet head-to-head against a US Carrier Strike Group on neutral territory. Ab…

> China has absolutely no chance to meet head-to-head against a US Carrier Strike Group on neutral territory. Absolutely none, and the US has TEN Carrier Strike Groups.

Right now. But take a look at the shipbuilding output they've achieved. In ten to twenty years, China could easily rival the US Navy.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#194

Post by VectorLock »

tehjoker wrote: post #161

Pretty incredible how far the US media will go to deflect attention from how bad the US response to the pandemic was to China. "Let me be clear: Labs in Wuhan might not have played any role in the origin of the pandemic. But a year later, no source has been found, and the world deserves a thorough, unbiased investigation of all plausible theories that is conducted without fear or favor." Okay. So basically this autho…

Its very difficult maybe impossible because China is trying very hard to make it that way.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#195

Post by colllectorof »

crx07 wrote: post #21

This has honestly been my unbiased opinion since essentially day 1. I believe that the release was almost certainly a complete accident, but there's just no realistic chance a novel virus coincidentally originates in the same isolated place as a lab that specializes in that exact same type of virus. The denialists, including the WHO and CDC and everyone else, need to get real and own up to what happened and figure ou…

Look, dude, leading experts have looked at this claim and said there is nearly zero chance this has was a lab leak:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/23/8417296...

I mean, yeah, five out of 6 cited experts have ties to EcoHealth Alliance, which in turn has funding ties to one of the two virology labs in Wuhan, but that's, like, just a coincidence. If it wasn't, I'm sure NPR would mention it.

And then Peter Daszak himself went to Wuhan with WHO team to investigate and didn't find anything conclusive. Peter fucking Daszak. You're not going to tell me that someone who was interviewed and cited on this subject by NPR, CNN, CBS, Slate, Democracy Now, Washing Post and The Guardian could be full of shit, right?

/s

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#196

Post by fennecfoxen »

hetspookjee wrote: post #110
totalZero wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes diplomacy means you smile when you don't want to smile. WHO has to play politics until we get this virus under control (ie, vaccines distributed worldwide). If WHO blames China now, in the thick of things, it would damage the world's ability to further study the origins of the virus and the results of Chinese research. Chinese vaccines are being used and studied in many countries worldwide and that is a goo…

I don't understand why WHO is selling it's creditiblity in trade for politics. What is there to gain? Perhaps I am too short sighted but I cannot believe that this is ever the right compromise to take. I also don't understand why they even had the slighest faith in a reliable investigation. After all these months of pushing back on researching accessing the site, they still bowed to their whims. How does this help th…

> I don't understand why WHO is selling it's creditiblity in trade for politics. What is there to gain?

You reason about WHO as an institution, while disregarding the principal-agent problem. The leaders of WHO are very strongly influenced by China, and as a result the institution is working to please China, rather than working to fulfill its nominal mission. Its leaders will see ample rewards for corrupting the institution.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#197

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

temp8964 wrote: post #140

Wow. Why every comment questioned your argument is downvoted or even dead? > is-ought 34 minutes ago [dead] [–] > Can you link to something that proves this is the criteria used for lab placement? How is this even dead? It's only asking for a reference.

This is, unfortunately, one of the issues that's been extraordinarily moralized. I've encountered more than a few people who argue that questions about the lab leak theory are inherently bad faith.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#198

Post by hyperpape »

abecedarius wrote: post #177
ch4s3 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really have a stake in this, and no real idea how plausible the lab accident theory is. That said, don't you think that the location of a lab like that would be highly correlated with the location of dangerous natural viral reservoir? Or put another way, if you wanted to study zoonotic viruses, wouldn't you put your lab in a place like that?

The claim I've read is that the bats live thousands of miles away. We shouldn't need to speculate.

The migratory range of bats is apparently up to 2000 miles: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7149675/ (no idea whether this describes the specific bats that are known reservoirs of these viruses).

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#199

Post by boringg »

crx07 wrote: post #21

This has honestly been my unbiased opinion since essentially day 1. I believe that the release was almost certainly a complete accident, but there's just no realistic chance a novel virus coincidentally originates in the same isolated place as a lab that specializes in that exact same type of virus. The denialists, including the WHO and CDC and everyone else, need to get real and own up to what happened and figure ou…

I subscribe to this theory. I didn't subscribe to it originally because it seemed to dystopian. However on reading the recent politico article (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/03/08/josh-rogin...) really changed my opinion about it. To be clear I think it would have been an accident at a Chinese government lab that was underfunded and overworked. Seems to me like the likeliest candidate. I don't think the current US administration wants to point the finger at the Chinese government since it will cause a lot public anger. That and the Chinese government most certainly covered all their tracks by now.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#200

Post by koheripbal »

woodruffw wrote: post #190
medymed wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other viruses do escape the lab sometimes. The first SARS virus escaped the lab more than once. https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-...

I'm not claiming that they don't! The article has multiple examples of viruses escaping either individual containment or the lab outright. What I'm claiming is that the volume of attributed escapes indicates that the average escape has relatively local consequences. In other words: historically, when everything goes wrong, it hasn't resulted in a global pandemic. What, then, made or makes COVID special? Maybe the ans…

COVID-19 is special because it doesn't cause severe illness in most people. SARS killed a far far higher percentage of people it came in contact with, and made 100% of them sick, so it was much more easily detected, and therefore contained.
Post reply on HN