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Open source projects should run office hours

simonwillison.net

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Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#191

Post by C4stor »

matkoniecz wrote: post #90

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

What happened to the HN rule of "interpret everything with the most positive interpretation possible", when this is the top voted comment ?

It seems pretty obvious that the author doesn't intend to coerce anyone into doing anything.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#193

Post by throwawinsider »

C4stor wrote: post #191
matkoniecz wrote: post #90

I have deep aversion to "Open source projects should run office hours" title. Maybe "Office hours may be a good idea for open source projects"? This would not suggest obligation. In general, fact that someone created or maintains or supports open source projects should not be considered to create any obligations beyond lack of malice and abuse. I am not obligated to support any bugs, create any features and it is per…

What happened to the HN rule of "interpret everything with the most positive interpretation possible", when this is the top voted comment ? It seems pretty obvious that the author doesn't intend to coerce anyone into doing anything.

It seems pretty obvious to me that should means should.

Pro tip: if you don't mean should, don't write should.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#194

Post by logifail »

This particular developer is fairly open about

"the challenges of taking an open source project and turning it into a full-time job, earning a salary good enough to avoid the siren call of working for a FAANG company"

and

"this as an opportunity for earning money against an open source project, and I think it could complement office hours nicely: 25 minutes on a Friday free on a first-come, first-served basis could then up-sell to a 1.5 hours paid consulting session, which could then lead to larger consulting contracts"

So, is the article more about clicks leading to revenue, and less about what the headline appears to say, like so many others?

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#195

Post by imtringued »

GordonS wrote: post #121
whizzter wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title is kinda unclear for someone non-English/US, for me office hours only means the actual hours when things are worked on (rather than any kind of availability time). So skimming the title it quickly I read it as "Open source projects should run on office hours" since my mind filled that in, kinda implied that someone in another part of the world should adjust their life hours to contribute to OSS. (Yes after…

I am a native speaker (well, Scottish, so some may disagree ;), and I didn't get the title either. Maybe it's an American thing, by "office hours" to me means 9-5, local time - you know, the kind of hours that people typically work in an office.

When you run your own organization you can set your own office hours.

> you know, the kind of hours that people typically work in an office.

It's exactly the same thing. There is no difference. This guy "works" in a home office on his project and he does so by talking with contributors (his customers essentially) instead of just sending a message on a mailing list or by posting on an issue tracker.

Where do you see the difference between this and a lawyer being open from 9-5 for customers? They are still his office hours and "office hours" primarily matter to outsiders who have to schedule an appointment.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#196

Post by filleduchaos »

logifail wrote: post #194

This particular developer is fairly open about "the challenges of taking an open source project and turning it into a full-time job, earning a salary good enough to avoid the siren call of working for a FAANG company" and "this as an opportunity for earning money against an open source project, and I think it could complement office hours nicely: 25 minutes on a Friday free on a first-come, first-served basis could t…

How is it "less about what the headline appears to say"?

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#197

Post by School-Cotton »

imtringued wrote: post #195
GordonS wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a native speaker (well, Scottish, so some may disagree ;), and I didn't get the title either. Maybe it's an American thing, by "office hours" to me means 9-5, local time - you know, the kind of hours that people typically work in an office.

When you run your own organization you can set your own office hours. > you know, the kind of hours that people typically work in an office. It's exactly the same thing. There is no difference. This guy "works" in a home office on his project and he does so by talking with contributors (his customers essentially) instead of just sending a message on a mailing list or by posting on an issue tracker. Where do you see t…

No, this is actually not what it means. "Office hours" has two distinct meanings: one is the hours you are in the office. That is not what is meant here. The other meaning, which is what is meant here, is specifically designated times when experts make themselves available for random questions about the thing they're an expert on.

For example, I work on a project that heavily depends on "library foo". The guy who wrote "library foo" (who is an employee of my company) holds "office hours" for one hour every Monday, where he commits to being in a Zoom call that other employees can join to discuss questions about "library foo". That does not mean he only works for one hour a week.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#198

Post by School-Cotton »

RBerenguel wrote: post #131
GordonS wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a native speaker (well, Scottish, so some may disagree ;), and I didn't get the title either. Maybe it's an American thing, by "office hours" to me means 9-5, local time - you know, the kind of hours that people typically work in an office.

To me (non-native, Spain), I read "office hours" as the time when I was a teacher in university: you have a set period of time where you are marked as available in your office for student consultation. I'm pretty sure that's what "office hours" is supposed to mean, although in Spanish and Catalan the word used would literally translate as "consultation hours" (horas/hores de consulta).

The term "office hours" in American English can mean either of these concepts, but in the current context it clearly means the one you suggest ("horas de consulta").

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#199

Post by imtringued »

akavel wrote: post #100
coliveira wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely right. However, I notice a change in behavior in developers during the last decade. They view open source as an extension of their duties as software developers, i.e., something that they have to do. Following this point of view, they consider that working on a project brings commitments as if they were in a paid job, and started projecting this belief on others. I think this is very disturbing.

You may have gotten this in reverse direction: it's rather that users of open-source software often desire support, and sometimes speak about it, and developers then tend to have hard time managing psychological boundaries with regards to answering that desire/expectation. Which is generally a nontrivial thing between people in any relation.

Yes, the idea behind the office hours is that you can point people at your calendar. If the calendar is full then that's how it is. Maybe the team has to grow to accommodate the increased demand but the maintainer certainly won't spend an extra hour working on the project beyond the time he allocated.

Compare that to the usual issue grind. You feel compelled to respond as fast as quickly and maybe even spend your whole day because you know that the backlog will grow worse tomorrow.

Re: Open source projects should run office hours

#200

Post by ddoeth »

bregma wrote: post #153
whizzter wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title is kinda unclear for someone non-English/US, for me office hours only means the actual hours when things are worked on (rather than any kind of availability time). So skimming the title it quickly I read it as "Open source projects should run on office hours" since my mind filled that in, kinda implied that someone in another part of the world should adjust their life hours to contribute to OSS. (Yes after…

The difference in usage is not localized English: it's cultural student/academic vs. employed. To a student with no professional experience, "office hours" are posted times when a professor is available to further mentor and guide a student. "office hours" are designated times outside of the scheduled class times and professors are generally required to provide them so others can benefit. To a professional and others…

I think the authors explanation with the german word "Sprechstunde" is really great. There is a clear distinction between "Arbeitszeit" which is the working time and the "Sprechstunde" which is the time someone is available to talk to.
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