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If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

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Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#191

Post by totalZero »

zepto wrote: post #181
totalZero wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, and I agree with you. But policies can change, so it's a fair conversation to have if in fact the stated thing happened. People seem to think that "is there evidence for what you said" is some kind of abusive reply but that should be table stakes for most claims. The guy in the tweet already said he'd write something up, but the people who said he is probably stating falsehoods just came up with that based on…

> But policies can change, so it's a fair conversation to have if in fact the stated thing happened. Yes, but it’s a not a fair conversation to start by spreading a false statement. If we’re just speculating about the policies, headlines like the one on this post are simply not true. Right now, that may be exactly what has happened. We don’t know yet but we do know it’s not as simple as the tweet and headline claim.

Not sure if you're referring to me but I haven't spread any false statements. I have neither argued that the tweet is true nor that it is false. What I did was ask if the guy making the comment had any evidence for what he was saying. Others had already asked dcurtis the same and he said he would write more about it later.

I wanted to know if the comment was just a pontification or if there was actually a reason to dismiss what dcurtis said. As I explained earlier, I have a direct reason (a purchase) to care,

If you actually think I speculated about anything, please quote where I did so.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#192

Post by ProfessorLayton »

jjav wrote: post #179
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I understand this, because autopay or not, if you accrue a 17k bill for a service then that's what's due unless you negotiate otherwise, and the lack of autopay is irrelevant. If you're worried about funds disappearing unexpectedly, many major U.S. banks wave checking account fees with direct deposits setup. It's trivial to setup a bank account with multiple checking/savings accounts, where one account is fu…

If some service suddenly tries to charge 17K it's almost certainly an error on their part. With autopay that error can propagate into draining your account and then all your other autopay accounts that come later get rejected and you'll get penalties and late charges on those. The first provider, the one who made a mistake, can be talked into correcting it (hopefully anyway). But all the other penalties you'll be res…

This is a misunderstanding of what I said, I agree that a 17k utility bill is most certainly a mistake.

But for example, if your autopay bills with direct access to your checking account total 2k/mo then it makes sense to limit the funds of that checking account to roughly that much, maybe a bit more incase of variance. If a utility tried to withdraw 17k from an account that only has 2.5k in it, it will not be able to do so (Overdraft "protection" can be turned off).

If there's a small buffer in the checking account, other bills should not cascade from one large anomaly in that case, because the bank won't hand out partial payments.

Yes, there are still risks with autopay, but they're greatly mitigated with a dedicated checking account for that specific purpose. Furthermore, forgetting to pay one of the several bills manually is a risk in and of itself. I'm just pointing out that setting up autopay doesn't necessarily mean giving unlimited access to one's funds.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#193

Post by austhrow743 »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #143
nullserver wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A surprise 17,000 electric Bill? I don’t hear about it much anymore but for years was terrified of making a cell data mistake and ending up with a 40k+ bill.

Not sure I understand this, because autopay or not, if you accrue a 17k bill for a service then that's what's due unless you negotiate otherwise, and the lack of autopay is irrelevant. If you're worried about funds disappearing unexpectedly, many major U.S. banks wave checking account fees with direct deposits setup. It's trivial to setup a bank account with multiple checking/savings accounts, where one account is fu…

Negotiating is a lot easier before you send the money.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#194

Post by ogre_codes »

acomjean wrote: post #138
ogre_codes wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So here's the weird thing. > No, Apple did not disable my account. I believe you, but I also trust the original poster by reputation. So what is the difference?

It could be just random rule enforcement. I manually pay my electric and gas. I can skip if for a month (or two) and not a problem. Except sometimes (once).. I have no idea why. I feel its just some random thing depending on who's running the dept that day. We experienced the same thing in College when after paying our electric bill for two months, they shut our power off without notice. Upon digging it was because w…

While this is frustratingly common with things like the App Store where every choice requires human reviewer judgment, I suspect this is probably an automated thing.

Perhaps it’s a new policy though which would explain the difference.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#195

Post by zepto »

totalZero wrote: post #190
zepto wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That comment is from a different user What does that matter?

I asked someone if he had any evidence for something he said, and then an hour later someone else said a different thing that is relevant to the conversation. You tell me.

The other comment is evidence for what he said.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#196

Post by zepto »

totalZero wrote: post #191
zepto wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But policies can change, so it's a fair conversation to have if in fact the stated thing happened. Yes, but it’s a not a fair conversation to start by spreading a false statement. If we’re just speculating about the policies, headlines like the one on this post are simply not true. Right now, that may be exactly what has happened. We don’t know yet but we do know it’s not as simple as the tweet and headline claim.

Not sure if you're referring to me but I haven't spread any false statements. I have neither argued that the tweet is true nor that it is false. What I did was ask if the guy making the comment had any evidence for what he was saying. Others had already asked dcurtis the same and he said he would write more about it later. I wanted to know if the comment was just a pontification or if there was actually a reason to d…

I’m not accusing you of anything.

There is clearly reason to doubt what Dcurtis said, as you have agreed.

I’m referring to this overall conversation which is a discussion of a statement by Dcurtis, which we already know is not what it originally sounded like, and may turn out to be false.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#197

Post by zepto »

totalZero wrote: post #151
setr wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem with your argument is that it's a tautology. If in fact the statement by dcurtis is the first efflorescence of the problem, your line of thinking would reject it anyway No its not; it's defining a probability. This report is most likely false, because it would be unlikely for this to be the first instance of it. It's not defining a logical proposition -- that's just you extracting more gaurantees from th…

You're conflating two different parent comments; I'll take them separately. If you think something "feels false" but you have no evidence for it, that's not a particularly strong basis for reasoning. >it's defining a probability. This is not true. It's classifying the first instance as false.

> If you think something "feels false" but you have no evidence for it, that's not a particularly strong basis for reasoning.

We can’t determine that.

Whether it is a strong basis for reasoning depends on the person’s priors, which may be very strong.

Until we ask them about their priors, we simply don’t know.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#198

Post by jefftk »

wbronitsky wrote: post #175
jefftk wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not sure why the commenters are so eager to believe a comment from a random Twitter account posted to HN. dcurtis isn't a random Twitter account; he's a regular here ( https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=dcurtis ) and made svbtle. He has credibility here, and I think a lot of the upvotes (including mine) are based on expecting he wouldn't say something like this without a good reason.

> he has credibility here I don’t even know how to respond to this appeal to amorphous authority, and to reply to the best possible interpretation of the post, I’ll pass over it. I’m sure this person is not lying that their account was shut down; I’m asking for an accounting of the Apple policy that supposedly exists. It would certainly be something I would be deeply concerned about.

I'm not saying you have to take Dustin's word for it or anything, but I think him being known to many here makes his tweet more likely to be upvoted than if it were posted by someone without a reputation.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#199

Post by zepto »

jefftk wrote: post #167
wbronitsky wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This poster continues to fling accusations at Apple and has yet to provide any proof of any of these suppositions whatsoever. I’m not sure why the commenters are so eager to believe a comment from a random Twitter account posted to HN. Confirmation bias is strong, I guess. This is a heavy accusation and I think the burden is heavily on the accuser to provide clear evidence that lack of payment for anything somehow lo…

> I’m not sure why the commenters are so eager to believe a comment from a random Twitter account posted to HN. dcurtis isn't a random Twitter account; he's a regular here ( https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=dcurtis ) and made svbtle. He has credibility here, and I think a lot of the upvotes (including mine) are based on expecting he wouldn't say something like this without a good reason.

> based on expecting he wouldn't say something like this without a good reason

That’s why people are asking for the reasons.

He’s exactly the kind of person you’d expect to be able to be able to give them, and frankly without them it doesn’t matter who is making the statement.

He has already partially walked it back, effectively invalidating the tweet.

Re: If you miss an Apple Card payment, Apple disables all your Apple accounts

#200

Post by mannerheim »

komocode wrote: post #160
ksec wrote: post #17

Apple has done it before. So I am not surprised. John Gruber ( and only him ) [1] suggest Epic was making things up when Apple would terminate Sign in with Apple on EPIC's App. While I dont fully side with EPIC on their case against Apple, on this issue alone it was clear the fault was on Apple [2]. And imagine you are in a dispute with Apple on this matter for longer than 30days without resolution, the time your iCl…

If you read Tim's tweet, it says in the policy "Ability to ENABLE Apple services [like] Sign in with Apple". This makes sense as Epic no longer has the ability to enable SIWA on new apps. Says nothing about termination of SIWA on current apps as SIWA will continue to work on existing Apps. I think Tim wasn't being too honest here.

What does the following mean?

> Apple is entirely within its rights to terminate Epic Games, Inc.'s developer account and all related functionality, but Sign In with Apple will continue to function for Apple customers for the next two weeks.

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