Earlier quoted context omitted.
A true cypherpunk would say that everyone should just start earning bitcoin directly to enter.
That is not possible without some kind of bootstrapping mechanism.
Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin
191–200 of 278 posts
Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually the ultimate reason why a note has value is that it can be used to settle tax bills and other debts, so you do not have to "hope" that someone out there will take it -- the government behind the money will take it from anyone who owes taxes, which is almost everyone who lives or does business in the country.
Hm, so what happens if a country issues some sort of currency in the form of loans/salaries/whatever but does not collect any tax (let’s say they sell natural resources to foreign countries and use that money to maintain their printing presses). Would the currency be worth nothing?
1. You mentioned loans, and I mentioned debts. Debts matter at least as much as taxes as a source of demand for fiat currency, since the government can "reassign" the ownership of property if debts are not repaid and the government will always determine debt payments in terms of its fiat currency.
2. Suppose the money is only distributed to citizens in the form of salaries. What do they do with it? Why does anyone they do business with -- merchants, landlords, whoever -- want it? One of the reasons why taxes and debt laws work well is that they are immediately relevant to almost everyone in a country (anyone who owns property owes property tax; anyone with a business loan must make their loan payments; etc.).
3. Suppose a country relies on resource wealth to stimulate demand for its currency. That country will compete in the global market for those resources and the demand for its currency, and thus the value of the currency, will fluctuate according to market forces. The price volatility would be a huge problem for the citizens of the country as they tried to use the currency in their daily lives.
So while in theory, under very particular circumstances, such a thing would be possible, in practice it would probably not last long. Volatility, weird distortions in demand, and other issues would render the currency hard to use and reduce its value in the local market.
Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The result is that the number 1 way people get into Bitcoin is through a mechanism that has none of the attributes of Bitcoin. Sure, but 95% of people don't care about that. They just want an asset they will go up. Everything else is just a story people tell themselves so they're not putting 20% of their net worth in trading cards.
Every store of value that has ever existed and will ever exist is just a game of speculation that it will continue to be valued when you're ready to withdraw your money to do things you've saved for. Gold was the best portable and fungible speculative bet for a very long time. Bonds are speculation that a country will continue to be productive and well managed enough to pay their debts without resorting to massive in…
Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't think anyone can actually prove these numbers.. Nobody is making a court case out of it, except for you. Everybody else is just using their common perception, that it is indeed mostly men holding bitcoins because it’s mostly men talking about it and it’s commonly known that mostly men are into computer technology. Let me know if you can’t justify a correlation between those things and I’ll help you “read th…
"Men own most bitcoins" "Mostly men are into computer technology." Where exactly in the bitcoin purchase or process the gender of a person relevant or disclosed? Why do people try to drag gender into things where it has zero relevance. I'm not trying to be a lawyer, the point is, that this argument has as much logic as "Aquarians are better swimmers." You can't prove or disprove it.. either way, it's irrelevant..
First though, I think you're confusing what was said. The starting sentence of the article is:
> Coinbase Global Inc.’s filing to become a publicly-traded company provides a glimpse into the remarkably small circle of mostly men who command the incredibly lucrative digital landscape.
That's not a statement about "men own most bitcoins" it's saying that Coinbase Global is run mostly by men. This is easily proven. You can look right here - 5 out of 7 of their executive team are men and 7 out of 9 on their board are also men - https://www.coinbase.com/about
So someone responded about that first sentence saying 'Any article that uses the sentence "mostly men" in the first paragraph is highly likely not worth reading'. You agreed with that sentiment, pointing out why - you think mentioning gender is irrelevant and furthermore it is a "perversion" for someone to do so. (Would it be a perversion if they said "hair stylists"?)
Here's why I think you're wrong on that point though. You're strictly equating "gender" and "genitals" as if they're synonyms. They're not. If you think that's true, try an experiment: Ask random people the first thing that comes to their mind when you say the word "men" or the word "women" to them. I'll bet you money that the vast, vast majority of people will not just say "penises" or "vaginas". They'll say so many other things because those words convey so much more than just genitalia.
In the news they constantly mention the gender of people, especially if the group of people they're discussing are all or even mostly one gender. That's because it helps listeners picture what's happening in their mind. Moreover, reversed gender roles are absolutely interesting to people. For instance - most criminals are men [0], so if a group of women robbed a bank you can rest assured that the news would absolutely say "A group of women robbed a bank" and also that it would be so interesting to people that they'd make a movie about it. Even if men robbed the bank, they would say "a group of men" because if they said "a group of people robbed a bank" people would want to know - so if it's a mixed group the news will say "two men and a woman robbed a bank today."
Why are most men criminals though? It's probably because men are just generally more aggressive than women. That fact is just one of the many that will occur to people when they hear about a group of people doing something. Genitalia is the furthest thing from their mind.
In the end, I don't know exactly why Matthew Leising, the author of this article, even mentioned that it's mostly men that run Coinbase Global. I know for a fact that most people would not be bothered at all by this tidbit of information being mentioned though. I'm not. I don't even care about bitcoin and I'm not even sure why I bothered to read these comments. One thing I am concerned about though is how people are squaring up to fight over these types of things. Why do you have such a strong reaction to someone mentioning the possible/probable gender ratio of a group of people? Perhaps the subject of societies treatment and recognition of gender in general is something close to your heart? I don't know - but I don't want the world fighting over this too so I'd like to help if I can.
[0] https://www.google.com/search?q=gender+percentage+of+crimina...
Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What is the fair value of bitcoin? It will never provide dividends or other types of future cashflows, so that aspect of its fair value is zero. The remaining part is purely speculative in that it is based on what other people will pay for it. Do Swiss Franks pay dividends or other types of cashflows? If I have 50,000 CHF in a box in my cupboard, what value is it beyond a small amount of fuel to burn? At some point…
Actually the ultimate reason why a note has value is that it can be used to settle tax bills and other debts, so you do not have to "hope" that someone out there will take it -- the government behind the money will take it from anyone who owes taxes, which is almost everyone who lives or does business in the country.
Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The result is that the number 1 way people get into Bitcoin is through a mechanism that has none of the attributes of Bitcoin. Sure, but 95% of people don't care about that. They just want an asset they will go up. Everything else is just a story people tell themselves so they're not putting 20% of their net worth in trading cards.
Every store of value that has ever existed and will ever exist is just a game of speculation that it will continue to be valued when you're ready to withdraw your money to do things you've saved for. Gold was the best portable and fungible speculative bet for a very long time. Bonds are speculation that a country will continue to be productive and well managed enough to pay their debts without resorting to massive in…
> Today the world’s gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce – gold’s price as I write this – its value would be $9.6 trillion. Call this cube pile A.
> Let’s now create a pile B costing an equal amount. For that, we could buy all U.S. cropland (400 million acres with output of about $200 billion annually), plus 16 Exxon Mobils (the world’s most profitable company, one earning more than $40 billion annually). After these purchases, we would have about $1 trillion left over for walking-around money (no sense feeling strapped after this buying binge). Can you imagine an investor with $9.6 trillion selecting pile A over pile B?
> ...
> A century from now the 400 million acres of farmland will have produced staggering amounts of corn, wheat, cotton, and other crops – and will continue to produce that valuable bounty, whatever the currency may be. Exxon Mobil will probably have delivered trillions of dollars in dividends to its owners and will also hold assets worth many more trillions (and, remember, you get 16 Exxons). The 170,000 tons of gold will be unchanged in size and still incapable of producing anything. You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond.
--Warren Buffett https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2011ltr.pdf
(emphasis added in the final paragraph)
Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin
#197It is kind of funny that exchanges have become so successful for Bitcoin- since they lose 100% of the stuff that made BTC attractive in the first place. They’re centralised, regulated and transactions don’t even go on the blockchain. The result is that the number 1 way people get into Bitcoin is through a mechanism that has none of the attributes of Bitcoin.
But if you want to interact with legacy banking systems then of course you need an exchange that's hooked into all that. I don't see why that should surprise anyone.
Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Remember when BTC used to be fun and exciting? Stupid projects being created, tipping widespread all over the internet. All of this moved over to Ethereum long ago but those outside of the crypto space might not know that. Thousands of hackers have created little neat experiments and projects for others to use and build on and more are released everyday. Some of my favorites are https://dontbuymeme.com/ , https://aa…
https://mia.bet/ is one i like, a home made site where you bet on a marble run race with the randomness generated by their pet hamster. makes me smile. i'll also add in https://clr.fund/ as its relevant to the bigger question of "how do we fund open source public goods" that might be relevant to hackernews readers.
> The continuously high Ethereum gas fees cause betting fees and operation costs to skyrocket. Hence, we decided to postpone the next race until further notice. We're currently working on a 2nd-layer scaling solution.
A shame that Ethereum gas fees are limiting enough to stop such a fun project.
Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wouldn't go as far as calling it a reinvention of the modern financial system, but I would call it a reinvention of the Dutch tulip mania[1], with the notable exception that tulips do have some tangible value. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
The other obvious exception is that bitcoins don’t self-replicate.
Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every store of value that has ever existed and will ever exist is just a game of speculation that it will continue to be valued when you're ready to withdraw your money to do things you've saved for. Gold was the best portable and fungible speculative bet for a very long time. Bonds are speculation that a country will continue to be productive and well managed enough to pay their debts without resorting to massive in…
I disagree with this: there's a genuine difference between non-productive assets like bitcoin (and gold) and productive ones like companies. > Today the world’s gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce – gold’s price as I write this – its value would…
Exxon Mobile is a speculation that they'll be able to pivot their business out of carbon fuel long term. Even monster companies falter and fail. Exxon in particular is down 50% from its peak in 2014.
Income generating assets are fantastic, but owning them requires work to constantly re-assess the landscape that makes them capable of generating income. Some people like Buffett are really good at that game. Winners like him start to win even more when they have hundreds of billions of wealth to slosh around which gives them the power to create self fulfilling prophecies with their investments that you and I don't have individually.
This is why people have started using passive index funds as savings accounts, which seems to be starting to distort the market and has a lot of people worried that it will lead to a housing bubble like crash, especially with Boomers withdrawing their retirement savings from the market while Millennials and Gen X might not earn enough to outpace the withdrawals. A demographic bomb.
Do we really want a world where doctors feel compelled to waste valuable time and attention playing the stock market game because a savings account doesn't even pretend to protect your money from inflation anymore? People from all walks of life with money to protect are increasingly riddled with anxiety that the wealth they've worked hard to save is getting washed out from under them, and it's making us all a neurotic mess of a society.