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Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

nytimes.com

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Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#191

Post by jackcosgrove »

devwastaken wrote: post #162
awillen wrote: post #7

I think this is generally a good thing. I believe there are really two positive things that can come out of going to college - either you get a name-brand degree that opens doors and gets your resume looked at, or you get useful skills that enable you to go down a particular career path (e.g. CS degree). Obviously in some cases it'll be both. The reality is it's really tough to make any case that a humanities degree…

It's not just humanities degrees that are the problem. The problem is the market is not actually in "high demand" like higher education advertises. Graduating CS students across the U.S. are turned down by employers constantly and end up working in a job that doesn't require their degree nor does it use any skills from it. I have multiple friends in this exact situation. We need to remove federal student loans for co…

The problem with education was explored by Bryan Caplan in The Case Against Education. Education is more about who you admit and less about what you teach.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#192

Post by matwood »

gonehome wrote: post #17
awillen wrote: post #7

I think this is generally a good thing. I believe there are really two positive things that can come out of going to college - either you get a name-brand degree that opens doors and gets your resume looked at, or you get useful skills that enable you to go down a particular career path (e.g. CS degree). Obviously in some cases it'll be both. The reality is it's really tough to make any case that a humanities degree…

There is so much broken with modern universities and incentives around pricing - why are all degrees four years? Why does a classics degree cost the same as a CS degree when the market value of a classics degree is basically zero? I wrote a little about it in the context of Lambda School, but it mostly applies: https://zalberico.com/essay/2019/04/08/lambda-school.html “The current university system in the US is a mes…

> why are all degrees four years?

Most people take the required hours over 4 years, but you certainly don't have to (you do have to plan since some classes are only offered at certain times). When I was in college I went year round so I could have a more even schedule and worked nearly full time. My wife did her undergrad in ~2.5 years after she got out the Army. She didn't go for the 'college experience', and just wanted to get done and move on.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#193

Post by minitoar »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #185
minitoar wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the value of differentiating potential employees is worth it overall.

Size of their feet differentiates them too. How is it actually usefull?

If that’s a useful differentiator then people would probably use it. Maybe you’re trying to imply that whether or not a candidate has a certain credential is not useful as a differentiator?

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#194

Post by mlyle »

DC1350 wrote: post #105
kop316 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your comment misses my original intent. If people might value education for its own sake (which is what I was replying to), then I have found Community Colleges to be the perfect place for this. But to address your point: > The problem with community colleges is that you completely miss out on any meaningful networking. As long as all the best students see it as beneath them, you'll have a hard time meeting p…

Yea I missed the point. Everyone I’ve ever met who went to a community college did it specifically to learn job skills since those are what all the programs were for. I didn’t know they taught things just for the sake of knowledge or personal interest.

There's a massive number of people who as adults or even seniors take classes on a non-degree path at a CC-- whether it's a language, an arts class, or whatever.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#195

Post by ClumsyPilot »

awillen wrote: post #7

I think this is generally a good thing. I believe there are really two positive things that can come out of going to college - either you get a name-brand degree that opens doors and gets your resume looked at, or you get useful skills that enable you to go down a particular career path (e.g. CS degree). Obviously in some cases it'll be both. The reality is it's really tough to make any case that a humanities degree…

"from a lower or even mid-tier college is a worthwhile investment "

I always found this idea amazing, we just accept that univerities are not really there for education but instead a giant sorting machine to separate plebs from (rich/talented/dilligent/take your pick).

They don't work like a normal market, there best company grows their production, and supplies millions with the best goods. Oxford/Harvard take their miniscule intake of a fraction of a percent every year, and opening door to unwashed masses would destroy their brand.

Do the best universities have best teaching technique, or are they best because they pick brightest students and they contribute nothing special?

A healthy market of affordable education cannot be build on this foundation of 16th century elitism, exclusion and zero-sum principle.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#196

Post by boatsie »

matwood wrote: post #192
gonehome wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much broken with modern universities and incentives around pricing - why are all degrees four years? Why does a classics degree cost the same as a CS degree when the market value of a classics degree is basically zero? I wrote a little about it in the context of Lambda School, but it mostly applies: https://zalberico.com/essay/2019/04/08/lambda-school.html “The current university system in the US is a mes…

> why are all degrees four years? Most people take the required hours over 4 years, but you certainly don't have to (you do have to plan since some classes are only offered at certain times). When I was in college I went year round so I could have a more even schedule and worked nearly full time. My wife did her undergrad in ~2.5 years after she got out the Army. She didn't go for the 'college experience', and just w…

I think the parent post refers to all of the different majors taking the same time.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#197

Post by fspeech »

awillen wrote: post #7

I think this is generally a good thing. I believe there are really two positive things that can come out of going to college - either you get a name-brand degree that opens doors and gets your resume looked at, or you get useful skills that enable you to go down a particular career path (e.g. CS degree). Obviously in some cases it'll be both. The reality is it's really tough to make any case that a humanities degree…

So long as the top tier universities are not expanding enrollments I fail to see what real change would come from more applications. Maybe they will get a bit more diverse. The lower tier schools will get their enrollment so long as the total demand is still there.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#198

Post by VLM »

gonehome wrote: post #17
awillen wrote: post #7

I think this is generally a good thing. I believe there are really two positive things that can come out of going to college - either you get a name-brand degree that opens doors and gets your resume looked at, or you get useful skills that enable you to go down a particular career path (e.g. CS degree). Obviously in some cases it'll be both. The reality is it's really tough to make any case that a humanities degree…

There is so much broken with modern universities and incentives around pricing - why are all degrees four years? Why does a classics degree cost the same as a CS degree when the market value of a classics degree is basically zero? I wrote a little about it in the context of Lambda School, but it mostly applies: https://zalberico.com/essay/2019/04/08/lambda-school.html “The current university system in the US is a mes…

> Why does a classics degree cost the same as a CS degree

Under a Marx labor theory of value, the professorial labor to produce a classics degree holder is almost certainly more expensive than the labor to produce a (edited: CS) degree.

It subjectively seems near universal in CS that the surviving graduates self taught themselves to program in high school or earlier, whereas AFAIK classics degree holders pretty much require professorial direction and education. The "greater CS community" aggressively self educates whereas I'm not sure the greater classics community does to the same extent.

Business, such as modern higher ed, is often an interesting tradeoff between the cost of production and revenue. I'm sure you can squeeze more revenue out of CS kids but the cost of production is almost certainly higher for Classics kids.

Which might explain why the classics are going away as available degree programs whereas CS generally only expands over long term.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#200

Post by ClumsyPilot »

minitoar wrote: post #193
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Size of their feet differentiates them too. How is it actually usefull?

If that’s a useful differentiator then people would probably use it. Maybe you’re trying to imply that whether or not a candidate has a certain credential is not useful as a differentiator?

Would they? We don't use IQ or neuroticism, are they useless? We have solid proof that attractive sociopaths get ahead more, is that usefull?

Maybe we should not pretend that hiring is this optimally tuned machine that knows exactly whats needed

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