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Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

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Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#191

Post by jillesvangurp »

ardy42 wrote: post #32
nimos wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

900/Mwh is 90c per kwh. Normal wholesale is about 5-7c. Retail national average is about 14. Higher cost states are around 20c with Hawaii near 30c.

> 900/Mwh is 90c per kwh, national average is about 14. Higher cost states are around 20c with Hawaii near 30c. And IIRC, electricity in Hawaii is so expensive because they generate most of it with diesel.

Historically true but it's being fixed. Wind and solar are basically vastly cheaper than shipping in diesel at this point and Hawai is a great place for both.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#192

Post by biased_coin »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #183
jedberg wrote: post #2

I need more context. Is that a lot? Is that low? Is it a big change from before? In what direction?

It's a lot, it's 0.9 $/kwh, which depending on where you live is about 10-30x the retail price of electricity under normal circumstances. If it's only for a few days/weeks, it's not going to matter a lot (financially) to most. Of course there are a few people who are going to get squeezed hard by this and I imagine some businesses are also going to have some hefty bills. It's tempting to single out technologies or pa…

Do normal households and small businesses keep track of prices ? Are they able to cap their bills in any way ?

In my country, where I live, the per unit prices are fixed and any increases are announced. I doubt whether people anywhere could keep up with 10-30x changes in prices.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#193

Post by cbmuser »

lsllc wrote: post #71

I'm a big fan of renewables, solar/wind/hydro. But we still need that baseline generating capacity for these dark icy winter days. It's clear now that coal/oil isn't it (pollution) and we should reserve natural gas supply for home heating (because it's efficient and "relatively" clean) and spot-demand generators. So that leaves Nuclear. But we just need to get it right this time -- i.e. don't build them near earthqua…

Nuclear has killed less people per TWh than any other form of electricity generation, despite Fukushima and Chernobyl.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#194

Post by jagger27 »

refurb wrote: post #161
etimberg wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lot. $1000/MWh is $1/kWh. A kWh is leaving 10 old school incandescent lightbulbs on for an hour. Usually this costs a few cents.

A single 60W bulb draws 0.06 kWh. So not 10 bulbs, but 17 bulbs.

100W bulbs used to be common and standard.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#195

Post by cbmuser »

AntonyGarand wrote: post #118
lsllc wrote: post #71

I'm a big fan of renewables, solar/wind/hydro. But we still need that baseline generating capacity for these dark icy winter days. It's clear now that coal/oil isn't it (pollution) and we should reserve natural gas supply for home heating (because it's efficient and "relatively" clean) and spot-demand generators. So that leaves Nuclear. But we just need to get it right this time -- i.e. don't build them near earthqua…

Renewables are very reliable if you winter-proof them, the same as other sources. The problem at the moment is that none of the sources for Texas was prepared for a cold winter, renewable or otherwise. Quebec is 99% renewable[0] (95% hydro, 4% wind) and runs through the coldest of winter just fine! > With over 40 853 MW of installed capacity, hydroelectric stations generate about 95% of Quebec’s electricity. > Wind i…

> Quebec is 99% renewable[0] (95% hydro, 4% wind) and runs through the coldest of winter just fine!

Hydro has huge impacts on the environment and can only be built if you have mountains and large amounts of water.

Oh, and it’s one of the dealiest sources of energy. The Banqiao dam disaster in 1975 killed as much as 250.000 people while there are less than 50 deaths attributed to Chernobyl according to UNSCEAR/WHO.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#196

Post by dathinab »

kevindong wrote: post #27
jedberg wrote: post #2

I need more context. Is that a lot? Is that low? Is it a big change from before? In what direction?

The national US average is ~$104.50/MWh (1000 kWh = 1 MWh). So, it's about ~9 times more expensive right than than normal. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...

This are end-user-prices, but the website is about wholesale prices which are normally much smaller e.g. in 2020 the wholesale average had been around $38/MWh (the price companies selling electricity to end-users and companies pay).

Also note that the site contains not just "real-time" prices but also day ahead prices (selected by default) which due to instabilities are quite a bit higher then real-time prices.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#197

Post by cbmuser »

jorblumesea wrote: post #130
AntonyGarand wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewables are very reliable if you winter-proof them, the same as other sources. The problem at the moment is that none of the sources for Texas was prepared for a cold winter, renewable or otherwise. Quebec is 99% renewable[0] (95% hydro, 4% wind) and runs through the coldest of winter just fine! > With over 40 853 MW of installed capacity, hydroelectric stations generate about 95% of Quebec’s electricity. > Wind i…

Also fair to note that fossil fuel plants also froze and were unable to operate. It's not even a renewable or not question. It's just whether your grid has been properly hardened against the elements.

Nuclear works under nearly all environmental conditions. Heck, we have nuclear powered energy sources in space.

Russia built a floating nuclear power plant in the remote city of Pevek in the polar circle where hardly any wind turbine or solar panel will be able to generate sufficient amounts of electricity.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#198

Post by spear »

yumraj wrote: post #144
jeffbee wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average price paid for residential^W power in California last year was 16 cents, not 30, not 40.

Not sure where you’re getting 16 cents, the lowest PG&E tier is 24 cents [0] [0] https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-ra... To add, Santa Clara city is served by Silicon Valley Power which I believe has substantially lower rates than PG&E.. there may be other such local providers..

Confirmed for Santa Clara -- 11 cents for the first 300 kWh, slightly less for off-peak hours (if you install a Time of Use meter): https://www.siliconvalleypower.com/home/showpublisheddocumen...

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#199

Post by cbmuser »

rtpg wrote: post #80
lsllc wrote: post #71

I'm a big fan of renewables, solar/wind/hydro. But we still need that baseline generating capacity for these dark icy winter days. It's clear now that coal/oil isn't it (pollution) and we should reserve natural gas supply for home heating (because it's efficient and "relatively" clean) and spot-demand generators. So that leaves Nuclear. But we just need to get it right this time -- i.e. don't build them near earthqua…

Gas-based electrical generation is what are failing right now! They are failing left and right! If 100% was gas there would be more problems, not less. Wind and Solar is pulling above planned generation right now. If you believe your logic, time to go all-in on wind + solar.

Wind and solar heavily depend on the weather. They cannot therefore produce any sufficient amounts of electricity during a blizzard.

And the blame doesn’t lie on natural gas but on the idea of shutting down baseload-capable sources like nuclear in favor of renewables.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#200

Post by dathinab »

biased_coin wrote: post #192
jillesvangurp wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a lot, it's 0.9 $/kwh, which depending on where you live is about 10-30x the retail price of electricity under normal circumstances. If it's only for a few days/weeks, it's not going to matter a lot (financially) to most. Of course there are a few people who are going to get squeezed hard by this and I imagine some businesses are also going to have some hefty bills. It's tempting to single out technologies or pa…

Do normal households and small businesses keep track of prices ? Are they able to cap their bills in any way ? In my country, where I live, the per unit prices are fixed and any increases are announced. I doubt whether people anywhere could keep up with 10-30x changes in prices.

As far as I know many electric contacts for end users have fixed prices. (Potentially with some auto price correction every year or so based on averages, but this shouldn't matter for now.)

Given that this are wholesale prices it about how much the company selling electricity to end-users pays for it to (simplified).

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