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Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#191

Post by throwaway287391 »

toyg wrote: post #62
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking up their patents ( https://patents.justia.com/assignee/e-ink-corporation?page=3... ), looks like their earliest patents are from 1998, so those should be expired already. That said, there's 36 pages of patents that seem related, so I'm sure that newly made e-ink technology will be covered by the newer patents.

It also takes time for manufacturers to design and produce. Even if someone had rushed out of the gate in 2018, they would probably not have ad products ready for a couple of years (and last year there was covid too) - and this with the most basic tech, which we know actually took significant time to be refined. I think a more realistic timeframe for usable eInk patents is 20 years from the first Kindle release, so 2…

> Even if someone had rushed out of the gate in 2018, they would probably not have ad products ready for a couple of years (and last year there was covid too) - and this with the most basic tech, which we know actually took significant time to be refined.

Ignorant question: are you not allowed to start developing a product, or "planning" to develop a product, before a patent it infringes on expires? I see from glancing at Wikipedia that with a US patent, "making" the item is infringement, but where is the line on that? Is it that you literally can't fully make the thing, i.e. only get 99% of the way there and you're fine? Or is it infringement to have an on-the-record chat with a buddy that you're thinking of working on X when the patent for X expires? (Responses in the form of LMGTFY are welcome, I couldn't quickly figure out how to search for this.)

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#192

Post by bloodorange »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #101
pidg wrote: post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

I would take one if i also could use it as replacement for my kindle.

If you are willing to strip the DRM and convert the files to epub or PDF, you can read them on the Remarkable 2. I do this as I prefer to read on the Remarkable 2 (compared to reading on the Kindle). It's just convenient to have all the technical material, notes and the leisure reading in one place.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#193

Post by bloodorange »

charlesdaniels wrote: post #147
toyg wrote: post #72

Beyond patent issues, TBH I would not have a problem paying for a reMarkable this very day, if I could be 10000% sure that there wasn't some shitty SaaS service involved in using it at any stage. These days, whenever a new gadget comes up, my first reaction has become "I wonder how they try to screw you into a SaaS later".

I was under the impression that ReMarkable in particular was pretty good about this. I believe they just run a custom Linux variant and you can even ssh into them. I was really considering getting one, but I think the bigger issue for me is the LiPo battery. You can’t take the thing apart without a heat gun because it’s held together with adhesive, so in a few years when the battery doesn’t hold a charge, you have an…

A thicker device would be more comfortable to hold as well. It feels heavy and it is slim. So, it "digs" into the palms a bit depending on how you hold it and that is not comfortable for extended periods of handheld use.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#194

Post by mieses »

dodobirdlord wrote: post #184
iso8859-1 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't a Chinese company clone their product and kill them?

They could replace E-Ink in China , and maybe they already have. But China's disregard for IP protections doesn't mean that goods created in China that violate international IP agreements can be exported.

Boox exports to the US and violates GPL.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#195

Post by Ajedi32 »

schwartzworld wrote: post #180
Ajedi32 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't necessarily disagree with you, but seeing as "the r word" is no longer used to refer to mentally disabled people it seems a little late to be campaigning to end its use as a pejorative _now_. If anything, these efforts should be directed towards ending the use of "autism" in a pejorative context, as if that trend isn't stopped then that term is up next on the euphemism treadmill. I also wonder if perhaps these…

> After all, "idiot" used to refer to mentally disabled people and few would consider that word to be particularly offensive today. Sure, if your friend lovingly jokes that you're an "idiot" you won't be offended, but the same can be said for most insults or slurs. However, insults that previously were medical terms can carry particular heft for some people. Try telling the women in your life they are being "hysteric…

In those examples it's the statement that's offensive, not the individual words used to express it. If I'm having an argument with someone and they imply I'm mentally deficient, it doesn't matter what words they use to say that; the statement itself is inherently offensive.

Here however it's not the statement people are objecting to (most even seem to agree with that part), but one particular word that was used in expressing that statement. That's a different thing entirely, and it's what I mean here when I talk about a _word_ being offensive.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#196

Post by zwayhowder »

dominotw wrote: post #22
pidg wrote: post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

same. I spent ~500$ on boox air. To me its my most used device after my laptop. I use it everyday for hours to save my eyes, totally worth $500. I also have an ipad which i never use.

I have no regrets buying a Boox Note 2. It runs Android so I have the Kindle app installed and the Adobe Digital Editions reader for my uni books and well anything else I want. The only thing I wish it had was MicroSD support.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#197

Post by danaos »

cosmotic wrote: post #189
danaos wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of Clearink? [1] They are using a different technology which appears to be superior. One can hope they will be reaching market soon. https://clearinkdisplays.com/

All these product shots look fake and I don't see any specifications, just vague claims. I'm curious in what way it seems superior.

They have short response times and higher refresh rates. Their online videos show video capable devices.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#198

Post by PurpleFoxy »

kiba wrote: post #182
mottosso wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see what you mean but on the other hand; are they really, though? If they hadn't come up with the technology and written the patents in the first place, we wouldn't even be here talking about it.

Patent held back the development of 3D printers, and accessibility of 3D printing in general for everyone. I now see weird and clumsy workaround to avoid patent lawsuits for things like conveyor belts as well lack of certain commercial goods such as heated chamber. Just because someone is an innovator doesn't mean they are for continual innovations or for the spread of innovations or like the idea of people building…

A lot of this stuff would have been invented anyway. We still would have had 3D printers without these patent holders.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#199

Post by Snitch-Thursday »

edent wrote: post #17

I have a Boyue Likebook Ares - it cost £190. https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2019/11/gadget-review-boyue-likeboo... It has an 8inch screen - about the same size as the iPad mini. It runs Android 8 but, obviously, some apps work better than others. It came with several nibs for its pencil. They have an 10 inch version for around £230. See https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/boyue-p10-is... So, there are some chea…

I ended up with a Likebook Mars as it fulfilled the entire criteria I had. Very similar design to the Ares.

headphone jack

runs new enough android to run syncthing

supports SD card

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#200

Post by PurpleFoxy »

charlesdaniels wrote: post #147
toyg wrote: post #72

Beyond patent issues, TBH I would not have a problem paying for a reMarkable this very day, if I could be 10000% sure that there wasn't some shitty SaaS service involved in using it at any stage. These days, whenever a new gadget comes up, my first reaction has become "I wonder how they try to screw you into a SaaS later".

I was under the impression that ReMarkable in particular was pretty good about this. I believe they just run a custom Linux variant and you can even ssh into them. I was really considering getting one, but I think the bigger issue for me is the LiPo battery. You can’t take the thing apart without a heat gun because it’s held together with adhesive, so in a few years when the battery doesn’t hold a charge, you have an…

The iPad is much better at it. You just install Nextcloud on it and now all apps have support for saving to your own server
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