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Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#191

Post by hef19898 »

corty wrote: post #152
chki wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were/are multiple vaccine candidates with different production needs. How do you decide which factories to build? I think there are a lot of unrealistic expectations when it comes to these highly sophisticated vaccines. It's not comparable to your average electronics product.

> How do you decide which factories to build? All of them. Or at least all of the different kinds of factories (mRNA, vector, live vaccine) for the most promising candidates. If there is a shortage of something, force production, apply imminent domain, force cooperation. War against Corona should be handled like a war, not like a toilet paper shortage.

In a lot of regards the "vaccine shortage" (hint: there is no real shortage, we are currently just in the early ramp up phase of production) should exaclty be treated like the toilet paper shortage.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#192

Post by ImaCake »

throwaway4good wrote: post #186
ImaCake wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a biologist, and not a virologist. I would suspect we are never getting rid of COVID. But vaccination could turn it into something not much worse than a cold or at least the flu. The virus will mutate and change in ways that make it more infectious, but probably not more virulent.

The comment that got flag-killed linked to the wikipedia of Marek's disease. A disease that resides amongst chickens for which there exists a vaccine that prevents the disease but not the spread of the virus. And is an example of a scary story (told by antivaxxers I assume) where the introduction of a vaccine allowed the virus flourish and turn itself into a much deadlier form it otherwise would not have had.

Well COVID is already a near-worst case scenario for human civilization. Anything much more nasty would not leave any room for denialism (and presumably would burn itself out fast), anything much less nasty would have meant double the Flu hospitalisation burden and no lockdowns. It is hard to see an outcome where the vaccines make things worse, but I admit biology is full of surprises.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#193

Post by mattzito »

Garlef wrote: post #120
jansan wrote: post #10

The Google COVID-19 statistics for Israel show that cases and deaths are declining, but not at a faster rate than elsewhere in the world. Reported deaths lag behind sometimes for weeks and new deaths were caused by infections weeks ago, so vaccination may not have much effect on deaths, yet. But the number of positive tests should have gone down considerably with 50% of the population vaccinated. Are all these aympto…

> But the number of positive tests should have gone down considerably > "Israeli study finds 94% drop in -> SYMPTOMATIC Asymptomatic cases still spread the virus.

They’re not saying there’s no decrease in asymptomatic cases, they’re saying they didn’t check for that. AstraZeneca’s study in the UK did surveillance testing of their study participants and found a significant drop in asymptomatic cases as well. Reasonable to assume the same is true with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#194

Post by hef19898 »

bodyfour wrote: post #156
lordnacho wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I don't get is why not try to mass manufacture the candidates before we know they are effective? It seems the work of what drug to make was done really quickly, and most of the time is spent in the trials, and then mass production. Maybe I missed it, but you'd think with something so devastating we'd just make a bunch of candidates, get them out to the clinics for storage, and as soon as we thought a given…

That is exactly what happened -- governments around the world paid for pre-approval manufacturing and the pharma industry has spent the last 6-8 months ramping up production. That's the reason we have any supplies at the moment. The truth is just that mass-manufacturing of a brand new vaccine is a hard problem. The fact that we're only a couple months from the very start of vaccinations and the world is already neari…

10 times that!

The site you linked is really nice! Not sure where they get the numbers from, but regardless a great resource.

One of the more interessting metrics in there is "daily doses per mil", as it shows the difference between the vaccination campaigns. Would be even better if the also shwed when each campaign started.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#195

Post by thu2111 »

Garlef wrote: post #120
jansan wrote: post #10

The Google COVID-19 statistics for Israel show that cases and deaths are declining, but not at a faster rate than elsewhere in the world. Reported deaths lag behind sometimes for weeks and new deaths were caused by infections weeks ago, so vaccination may not have much effect on deaths, yet. But the number of positive tests should have gone down considerably with 50% of the population vaccinated. Are all these aympto…

> But the number of positive tests should have gone down considerably > "Israeli study finds 94% drop in -> SYMPTOMATIC Asymptomatic cases still spread the virus.

Asymptomatic infection doesn't seem to exist. The current status of this belief amongst even the most panicked researchers is that "more data is needed":

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851

But a large scale study in Wuhan found no cases of asymptomatic transmission, and the same findings have been found elsewhere. NB: there is a difference between asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic. The latter sometimes can transmit.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#196

Post by ck425 »

Milner08 wrote: post #68
mytailorisrich wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, currently the UK is vaccinating at rates of up to 600,000 per day. That's about 3x the top daily rate of, say, France.

I had my first jab yesterday in London, I am (just) under 30 so I was surprised to be offered it, but I went along anyway and it was very well organised. In an out in 5 mins, the vaccines were being given by army and navy medics (all in uniform, which was cool but also a bit apocalypse-y). They said they were giving over 100 an hour in there alone, and there can't have been more than 15 bays for vaccines. I was very…

Out of curiosity how did you qualify for the vaccine? I work for the NHS but as I'm not frontline don't qualify for it. Not that I disagree with the decision but the internal talk I've heard is that the government has been extremely strict about only vaccinating those in the priority groups.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#197

Post by corty »

Garlef wrote: post #120
jansan wrote: post #10

The Google COVID-19 statistics for Israel show that cases and deaths are declining, but not at a faster rate than elsewhere in the world. Reported deaths lag behind sometimes for weeks and new deaths were caused by infections weeks ago, so vaccination may not have much effect on deaths, yet. But the number of positive tests should have gone down considerably with 50% of the population vaccinated. Are all these aympto…

> But the number of positive tests should have gone down considerably > "Israeli study finds 94% drop in -> SYMPTOMATIC Asymptomatic cases still spread the virus.

It isn't sufficiently researched if asymptomatic, vaccinated cases still spread the virus in the same amount. The virus load spread by a vaccinated person can be expected to at least be lower, maybe even negligible or nonexistent.

Also, see the sibling comments about the difference between asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#198

Post by _0o6v »

enjoyyourlife wrote: post #91
_0o6v wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find a single bit of evidence to support your post, so I'll go out on a limb and say stop spreading fake news.

This article ( https://apnews.com/article/israel-misinformation-coronavirus... ) provides some evidence for what is said in that comment

Specifically the last claim of a "cure"

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#199

Post by graeme »

it_robot wrote: post #189
lucd wrote: post #104

Here is some chart showing vaccination effect on hospitalization for severe forms. Very telling. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/israel-severe-hospitaliza...

ehhhh im not sure how you are reading this but the chart looks quite bad

Remember that hospitalizations take at least 2-3 weeks post infection to occur, and that you don’t see protection from the first dose for at least five days or so.

So you’d expect hospitalizations to lag 18-26 days or so. Also the chart is not saying all those groups had vaccines: those under 60 largely haven’t been. The labels could have been clearer.

It’s just a chart of change in hospitalization by age from a starting date.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#200

Post by ema »

bajsejohannes wrote: post #15
scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

The bottleneck is vaccine production. It doesn't matter how fast you vaccinate. Sure, Israel did a great job negotiating for vaccines, but it's a zero-sum game so only a few countries could have pulled this off.

It's only a zero-sum game if more money wouldn't ramp the production up faster. This might be case but I whish people who say it's zero-sum would say why they think so.
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