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Update on an Employee Matter

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Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#191

Post by jakelazaroff »

dustinmoris wrote: post #190
jakelazaroff wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a member of the group of people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the “real” Nazis, I’d much rather be warned that their successors were involved in an ongoing terrorist attack in the immediate vicinity than tiptoe around the issue to avoid making conservatives uncomfortable.

> avoid making conservatives uncomfortable Hacker News has a huge global audience. Conservatism means something very different in all parts of the world. I assume you mean Republicans in America? Just to give you context, here in Europe we would consider the Democrats in the US a right conservative party and Republicans a far right party. Conservatives in Europe would be considered far left in the US, because in Euro…

We are discussing a conflict between American employees in a US-based office about an event involving American residents. It should be clear that I’m specifically referring to American conservatives.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#192

Post by smeyer »

geofft wrote: post #122
pjc50 wrote: post #15

> Our head of HR has taken personal accountability and resigned from GitHub yesterday morning, Saturday, January 16th. You don't normally see consequences for senior officers for this kind of mistake. I would be curious to know who this person was and if they had any odd political affiliations.

The head of HR was Carrie Olesen, who doesn't seem like she had any odd political affiliations: https://profilemagazine.com/2020/carrie-olesen-github/ https://github.blog/author/carrieoleson/ However, it's worth noting that the statement says "resigned from GitHub," and she was at Microsoft before the acquisition and moved to GitHub. I wonder if it means she's still with Microsoft. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Her political donations also look completely unremarkable: Obama, Biden, The Lincoln Project, etc.. I'm not sure what the previous commentator is wondering about possible political affiliations, but she certainly doesn't seem to stand out.

https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?...

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#193

Post by watwut »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #177
biermic wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Independent from the events: The way Github employees communicate with each other makes me kind of uncomfortable. In the companies I've worked here in Europe, such discussions just would not happen in a cooperate chat room.

Last week in Europe, I was reprimanded by an US-based C-level exec for using the word "annoying" while asking a question about email filtering in a corporate Slack channel. Can't imagine being still employed if I used the word Nazi there. People in US are broadcasting hypocrisy onto the world. None can feel safe.

> People in US are broadcasting hypocrisy onto the world.

America is large country, half a continent. The existence of people and companies with widely different standards within it should be expected. That does not make it hypocritical.

Also, you treat Nazi as slur, but it is not one. It is political group.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#194

Post by m1 »

biermic wrote: post #109
bmiller2 wrote: post #13

Well they left all the juicy parts out Context: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/15/22232766/github-employees... I can’t believe people talk like this on a work public channel.

Independent from the events: The way Github employees communicate with each other makes me kind of uncomfortable. In the companies I've worked here in Europe, such discussions just would not happen in a cooperate chat room.

Not only uncomfortable but it’s also somewhat embarrassing. I’ve always thought GitHub would be a pretty good place to work but judging from those chats I think I would definitely avoid.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#195

Post by 8fGTBjZxBcHq »

surfer7837 wrote: post #84
bastawhiz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain? On January 6 there was a man wearing a "Camp Auschwitz" hoodie with the word "staff" printed on the back, on national television. Do you believe this man is not a Nazi? And do you believe that Jewish people do not have a right to warn their coworkers to stay safe in light of people like this committing violent acts? I'm genuinely curious to understand what part you believe is political here, because…

I just don't think a company Slack channel is the right place for this, when tensions are high people can get upset and offended and it just creates a bad work environment. There are time and place for things like this, not over a Slack channel. I don't know about any about that, I haven't been keeping up on the news

god forbid someone create a bad work environment during a nazi coup lmao

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#196

Post by pritambaral »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #172
Griffinsauce wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That employee is taking the position that "there are" is equal to "all those people are", the same flawed logic is being used as a premise by a lot of commenters here. It's so blatently wrong that it's hard to assume good faith.

Now that you pointed it out I see what you mean, but I wouldn’t call it blatantly wrong. To me the statement honestly read like it’s lumping all protesters together, or at least it’s certainly not making an obvious attempt to differentiate.

> ... or at least it’s certainly not making an obvious attempt to differentiate.

It does not need to.

Yelling "Fire!" in a cinema hall does not need to be accompanied by precise instructions as to where said fire is burning. It's a warning, not a debate.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#197

Post by pindab0ter »

watwut wrote: post #193
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last week in Europe, I was reprimanded by an US-based C-level exec for using the word "annoying" while asking a question about email filtering in a corporate Slack channel. Can't imagine being still employed if I used the word Nazi there. People in US are broadcasting hypocrisy onto the world. None can feel safe.

> People in US are broadcasting hypocrisy onto the world. America is large country, half a continent. The existence of people and companies with widely different standards within it should be expected. That does not make it hypocritical. Also, you treat Nazi as slur, but it is not one. It is political group.

I’m sure words can have separate meanings from their initial one.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#198

Post by username90 »

otterley wrote: post #180
itsdrewmiller wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen that much support for '"freedom of speech" for those who stormed the Capitol' - the big conversation here has been around the deplatforming of Parler, which clearly serves a bigger audience than just the rioters/insurrectionists. (Not counting flagged-dead throwaway account comments blaming it all on antifa, of course.)

It doesn’t matter if there’s still some good water in the pool after there’s so much urine in it that it smells like urine and has turned yellow. People who aren’t of a militaristic, racist, fascist, or seditious bent are still welcome in other fora like Twitter and Facebook.

> People who aren’t of a militaristic, racist, fascist, or seditious bent are still welcome in other fora like Twitter and Facebook.

Problem is that such people are mostly welcome to those sites as long as they belong to the right groups. If you rant about women or left leaning people etc on reddit like women rant about men or left leaning people rant about right leaning people then you'll likely get banned.

So the large group of people who just wants to rant harmlessly but aren't allowed allowed to do it on mainstream sites has nowhere to go now so they seek out sites like Parler where they then get radicalized since the environment is so toxic. It would probably be better if Reddit etc was a bit more tolerant of them, but it is what it is.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#199

Post by loeg »

otterley wrote: post #179
loeg wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to me that this was the head of HR's mistake (sort of implied) and not a more junior manager (both in reality, and in who usually gets the blame even if it's a senior manager's fuck-up). There is some unnamed VP of engineering who may have kicked off the process with HR. I don't know. I'm glad GH (1) took another look at the firing, (2) realized they were mistaken, and (3) mea culpa'd publicly.

A good leader is supposed to take responsibility for the actions taken by his or her team. Failure of a unit implies failure of the leadership. In my view, the right outcome happened here.

> A good leader is supposed to take responsibility for the actions taken by his or her team. Failure of a unit implies failure of the leadership.

I've heard the same "leadership principles seppuku" and sure, this would be consistent with that ethos. (In my experience, that kind of buck-stops-here ownership happens less often than not.) But this isn't the part of your comment I want to argue.

> In my view, the right outcome happened here.

I disagree (if it was a subordinate).

If the responsible party was a more junior member of HR, I'd like to see the blowback land on the actually culpable party. (That could be in addition, or alternative, to the leader's resignation.)

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#200

Post by username90 »

pjc50 wrote: post #16
chmod600 wrote: post #8

What was the improper reason for termination? I'm guessing that the employee had some distant political alignment with the insurrectionists, but not close enough to warrant disciplinary action?

The alleged reason was "using the word Nazi on Slack", in the context of "“stay safe homies, Nazis are about.”" in relation to the events of the 6th and afterwards.

People have gotten fired for saying "We need to filter bad words like n***". When you have zero tolerance policy context doesn't matter.
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