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Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

courtlistener.com

191–200 of 485 posts

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#191

Paragraph 5 seems pretty damaging if AWS really did violate their contract as claimed.

Para 4 and 5 for those wondering: >AWS’s decision to effectively terminate Parler’s account is apparently motivated by political animus. It is also apparently designed to reduce competition in the microblogging services market to the benefit of Twitter. >5. Thus, AWS is violating Section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act in combination with Defendant Twitter. AWS is also breaching it contract with Parler, which requires…

This feels like a shoddy contract dispute just thrown in. I think it's a pretty immediately dead end and they probably know this. The contract is available to all here: https://aws.amazon.com/agreement/

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#192

Parler has a moderation policy and they don’t apply it. Content that promotes illegal activity is not protected free speech and is also prohibited by Parler’s policies. They selectively applied that moderation after they became popular with MAGA. Also, 4chan exists why can’t Parler find a host?

Afaik their entire stack is built using AWS services.

The difference is that Parler was a disruptive platform, 4chan isn't.

There is a bunch of awful content hosted on AWS, but it's generally only when you reach some scale and become a threat to those in silicon valley that you can expect to be shut off.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#193
post #112
post #80

Glenn Greenwald has been investigating the planning of the Capitol protests and says "it was largely done on Facebook". So far he hasn't been able to identify a single person who was arrested and active on Parler: > Do you know how many of the people arrested in connection with the Capitol invasion were active users of Parler? Zero. The planning was largely done on Facebook. This is all a bullshit pretext for silenci…

I'm really scared to trust Greenwald on anything political at the moment. For a start, the silencing competitors argument doesn't really work with AWS because they just do hosting.

> For a start, the silencing competitors argument doesn't really work with AWS because they just do hosting.

The complaint alleges there are deeper ties:

Less than a month ago, AWS announced with a press release a new multi-year deal with Twitter. AWS will “provide global cloud infrastructure to deliver Twitter timelines.” Twitter Selects AWS as Strategic Provider to Serve Timelines, Press Center, Amazon, (Dec. 15, 2020), https://press.aboutamazon.com/news-releases/news-release-det....

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#194
post #112
post #80

Glenn Greenwald has been investigating the planning of the Capitol protests and says "it was largely done on Facebook". So far he hasn't been able to identify a single person who was arrested and active on Parler: > Do you know how many of the people arrested in connection with the Capitol invasion were active users of Parler? Zero. The planning was largely done on Facebook. This is all a bullshit pretext for silenci…

I'm really scared to trust Greenwald on anything political at the moment. For a start, the silencing competitors argument doesn't really work with AWS because they just do hosting.

That's a shame, because Greenwald and other contrarian writers have been the only ones consistently right the last few years with regards to Russiagate and other "emotional" headline issues.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#195

> AWS is also breaching it contract with Parler, which requires AWS to provide Parler with a thirty-day notice before terminating service Well, that's not cool nor fair.

Amazon isn't dumb. There are obvious outs for scenarios like this.

https://aws.amazon.com/agreement/

> 6.1 Generally. We may suspend your or any End User’s right to access or use any portion or all of the Service Offerings immediately upon notice to you...

I'd bet they cite this as the reason:

> could subject us, our affiliates, or any third party to liability

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Handing control over." Seriously, do you have a realistic alternative? If we are going to have social media, at scale, in a capitalist society, it's hard to see how there's much of an alternative to for-profit companies. Do you want the government to run Twitter?

In some ways, yes. For example, Parler could self-host instead of relying on cloud offerings. For something controversial that will likely face legal challenges, this seems like the only reasonable way to do things (see: wikileaks, sci-hub etc.)

> For example, Parler could self-host instead of relying on cloud offerings

what do you think the difference between AWS' terms of service, and the terms of service of a data center will be?

the last data center contract i signed had most of the same stuff, they just had to return my hardware if they were kicking me out.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#197
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether that's legal, or anticompetitive

Anticompetitive? Is parler competing with amazon in any ways, shape or form?

I don't think so. Maybe if competitors use AWS? Tough to imagine this won't get thrown out though.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#198

I have seen so many violent threats and incitements on Twitter, Snapchat, Facebook, and Instagram over the last 5 years that Parler could possibly make the case that they've been singled out, but I doubt it. They're just too unsympathetic of a plaintiff, imho. That said, antitrust battles against Big Tech will dominate the next four years of economic policy, and rightfully so. GAFA is too big, too powerful, too manip…

It is weird to me that we people seem to be saying "These 4 companies need to be broken up". They are already 4 companies. It seems different than say, the Bell breakup, which was one company.

The parent said they were too powerful and needed to be brought to heel; not that they were monopolies which needed to be broken up. I think this point has a lot of merit.

Circa 2017, liberals were arguing adamantly that Russia tampered with the presidential election by exploiting the curation algorithms that these companies employ--if we can believe that these algorithms are powerful enough that they can swing an election, why should we entrust that power to a handful of companies with tightly aligned interests (irrespective of whether or not they can secure their algorithms from outside tampering)? Why should we be content with this kind of hyper corporate oligarchy? To own the cons?

Note that "breaking the companies up" isn't the only way to bring them to heel. With respect to social networks, one interesting approach would be to decouple one's social network from the specific platform through which one accesses their social network by requiring social media companies to use open protocols that upstarts can equally implement. This would increase competition, including allowing non-ad-based platforms (with all of the inherent ethical issues associated with that business model) to compete with these companies. It would also prevent these companies from shutting down alternative interfaces that circumvent their tracking. Most importantly, the competition would weaken them to the point that they're still profitable but not a threat to our democracy.

I haven't considered this possibility well enough to say with any confidence that it's a particularly good solution, but it seems interesting and appealing from this distance.

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#199
post #68

Amazon may have the right to deny anyone service - but can they do it 'immediately' on whatever grounds? Parler could very well make more money suing Amazon than anything else. This was a huge moment for Parler, and AMZN may have grounded them. There's a difference between 'we don't want to do business with you' ... and 'we will make you dependent on us, but the we'll drop you like a rock and put you out of business'…

you lost me on the last part there, you can't have it both ways. if they don't want to do business with you they don't have to point blank (barring any outstanding contracts which can be settled).

as a business you choose to take risks relying on other vendors. we're all dependent on any business and they could drop us at any time, but that's the risk we take for convenience or what not. we make the calculation the risk is low.

if you know there's a growing base of extremism on your site and you have a precedent like gab, why wouldn't you potentially prepare for it?

Re: Parler LLC vs. Amazon Web Services Inc

#200
This complaint seems to include a ton of things like:

- AWS was especially mean to us

- AWS is hypocritical, look how bad twitter is

- We were singled out for political reasons

- This will kill us

All of which might be true, but none of which is illegal. The main (only?) real legal complaint here seems to amount to "AWS banned us to prop up Twitter in an anticompetitive way that's illegal under antitrust laws." That seems incredibly weak to anyone who's been following this story at all.

The charitable interpretation of AWS's actions would be that they banned Parler for refusing to moderate effectively. The less charitable version is that AWS doesn't care about Parler, but caved to public and internal pressure to ban them. In no reasonable interpretation did AWS do it because they just love Twitter so much. I don't see this suit going anywhere.

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