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EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

bbc.com

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Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#191

Post by throwaway894345 »

oblio wrote: post #55
throwaway894345 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, movie and music ratings aren't censorship. Moreover, only broadcast television and radio are censored (perhaps because radio waves are a public platform?). I'm not going to argue that censoring broadcast is ideal or valid, but I'm certainly less sympathetic to the plight of massive media companies than I am to millions of private citizens.

> To be clear, movie and music ratings aren't censorship. True, calling them censorship is kind of stretching the definition. But there's still a small group of people that decide those ratings and the commercial impact of those ratings, as far as I know, is massive. So it's not direct censorship, but it still has a "chilling effect".

Like I said, I'm not going to die defending censorship of Hollywood or CBS or whomever, but I am much more concerned with the rights of ordinary citizens who only recently got the right to communicate in any sort of broadcast fashion (still nowhere near the power that the media industry enjoys).

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#192

Post by maltelandwehr »

nbzso wrote: post #80

Another money grab from EU bureaucrats. Control the narrative in digital space, regulate small businesses, and get the position of Gatekeeper from big tech. It looks nice on paper.

In the current system all the money flows to Google, Facebook, etc. and they evade EU taxes.

So, yes. A money grab. One that is dearly needed for the EU!

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#193

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

Silhouette wrote: post #180
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how Brexit was supposed to fix an alleged EU democratic deficit when the UK suffers from the same problems - even more so, because most EU countries don't have FPTP. In fact the EC is just the EU's version of the UK cabinet, but on a bigger scale. Everyone present is elected by their national voters, but there are - as yet - no direct EU-wide elections for specific EU posts. Opponents of the EU criticise…

Just to be clear, I'm neither arguing for nor arguing against Brexit here. Personally, I am a politically interested floating voter with no party affiliation. On the specific issue of Brexit, I have always had mixed feelings, for the simple reason that I expect it to have both some good and some bad effects for both the UK and the EU27, and I'm not sure anyone truly knows what the balance between them will end up bei…

In that case I don't understand your point. You seem to be arguing for direct representation in the previous comment and arguing against it in the comment below.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#194

Post by Grimm1 »

ksec wrote: post #31
Majestic121 wrote: post #6

A interesting point missing from the BBC article is that they have different levels of expectations between small to medium businesses and large ones, to avoid regulatory capture ? : > Platforms that reach more than 10% of the EU's population (45 million users) are considered systemic in nature, and are subject not only to specific obligations to control their own risks, but also to a new oversight structure. Another…

>Another interesting tidbit is the answer to the common trope that 'private platform can act as they wish since they are private' : Now the EU is saying the same thing to Apple. It is their market, and they dictate the rules. Which is perhaps a taste of Apple's own medicine? I wonder what those people who keep saying it is Apple's platform they can do what ever they want had to say? I sometimes wonder had Apple not b…

This is weird to me, the argument is not just that company X is a private platform so they should be able to do what they want it is that they're a private US platform and in the US they can do what they want because that's generally the law and social understanding of companies in the US. At least for me it was never that company X can do what they want globally.

That's silly they're subject to the laws of the jurisdiction under which they operate.

The EU is free to regulate them just like the US is free not to regulate them.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#195

Post by Tainnor »

SllX wrote: post #142
ksec wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Another interesting tidbit is the answer to the common trope that 'private platform can act as they wish since they are private' : Now the EU is saying the same thing to Apple. It is their market, and they dictate the rules. Which is perhaps a taste of Apple's own medicine? I wonder what those people who keep saying it is Apple's platform they can do what ever they want had to say? I sometimes wonder had Apple not b…

The difference is that Apple is not a government. That means they are not an organization which can legally stop, detain, arrest, charge, prosecute, convict, imprison, and kill you.

> The difference is that Apple is not a government

Yes, and this is a key difference between Europeans and (at least the libertarian/SV type of) Americans.

We trust governments more than corporations because governments were elected by us. It's really a difference in culture.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#196

Post by mojzu »

jsmith45 wrote: post #114
mojzu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, based on the article Facebook reactly quite positively to the proposed laws, which isn't a good sign. I'd like to be proven wrong, and there are some parts I like, such as not allowing preinstalled/unremovable apps. But on the whole I think the increased moderation/verification burdens are just going to cement existing companies in their market position, and create all kinds of oppurtunities for corruption in h…

Well corruption in how disputes are handled might not be a huge issue. As a first step the companies are required to allow you to appeal takedowns and account suspensions/terminations (for TOS or illegal content reasons, not for non-payment reasons) for a 6 month period. Further, if you appeal a takedown or account suspension and the company rejects your appeal, the law will allow you to take the matter to binding ar…

Those seem like some decent mitigations, but I still have a hard time believing that wealthy corporations and people won't be able to abuse such a system for their own gain as they have done with the DMCA. And how those well meaning restrictions could easily throttle a competitive startup, because Facebook et al have the scale, technical and legal experience to handle these things whereas they may not

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#197

Post by [deleted] »

nickpp wrote: post #110
baxtr wrote: post #75

Ok, I will probably get downvoted for this. But I will still speak my mind: I am an EU citizen and I don’t think that’s the right approach because it’s distracting from what really happened: We missed the big Internet bus because we were so much focused on keeping things the way they were. Now we try to regulate us out. It makes me unbelievably sad. And it continues. The car was invented here but it takes an Australi…

Another EU citizen here, resonating with your words. It seems that Europe has decided to stop evolving and just do anything to protect the status quo. All these regulations just trying to keep those damn disruptors at bay. Innovation is forbidden here. But hey! It’s for our own good.

[deleted]

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#198

Post by raffraffraff »

avianlyric wrote: post #39
nickff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU didn't create its citizens (unlike Apple which created its products); saying that the EU 'owns' their market is quite a big step in assuming control over the lives of residents.

> quite a big step in assuming control over the lives of residents. Have you heard of laws and governments before? This is exactly what they do, it’s also why democracy is such a big thing. If you’re gonna give that much power to an organisation, you want to make sure you can change it if start going off the rails. > The EU didn't create its citizens (unlike Apple which created its products); It might not have “creat…

Don't the citizens create the government in a democracy?

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#199

Post by danielfoster »

> Furthermore, the law specifies that local officials can send cross-border orders to make tech firms remove content or provide access to information, wherever their EU headquarter is based.

The article goes on to give an example of how Amsterdam could use the law to request earnings data for local hosts from Airbnb.

The way the BBC explains it, this law would give EU governments ready access to user data with no oversight.

This represents a huge loss of privacy and freedom for EU residents.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#200

Post by SllX »

Tainnor wrote: post #195
SllX wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that Apple is not a government. That means they are not an organization which can legally stop, detain, arrest, charge, prosecute, convict, imprison, and kill you.

> The difference is that Apple is not a government Yes, and this is a key difference between Europeans and (at least the libertarian/SV type of) Americans. We trust governments more than corporations because governments were elected by us. It's really a difference in culture.

That’s an interesting point, but I don’t think it’s a matter of trusting one type of organization more than another.

I think we (Americans) don’t trust either without cause, and there’s more corporations than governments so there’s more opportunities to find corporations, actually scratch that, businesses, big or small, that we trust. But by default, I think we trust both about as far as we can throw them and businesses we do trust, maybe only slightly so and in a largely transactional manner. The question is whether we are getting value for the money, not whether the businesses and owners are trustworthy.

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