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FTC issues orders to nine social media and video streaming services

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Re: FTC issues orders to nine social media and video streaming services

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre social media, we lived in a world where information was generally separated by geography. Your comment suggests that by returning to such a state, it would result in increased radicalisation. The implication is therefore that social media has decreased radicalisation. I’m not sure I agree.

Social media has both increased and decreased radicalization at the same time. For those who already had radical ideas, who previously couldn't find others with the same ideas, they are now more radicalized (think conspiracy theories and so on). For those with open minds, it's allowed them to learn new things from people far away with very different ideas.

> For those with open minds, it's allowed them to learn new things from people far away with very different ideas.

It can do that, but that can also backfire because the current social media platforms aren't trustworthy or transparent.

Advertising, "influencers", fake likes, bots, and all of that let small fringe groups amplify and normalize their ideas, so when open minded people come along, they see thousands of likes and hundreds of people promoting some idea, and they can get the impression it's a much more popular or common idea than it really is.

In other words, social media makes it very easy for a vocal minority to push their views on people, and it's nearly impossible for other users to discover when that's happening.

Re: FTC issues orders to nine social media and video streaming services

#192
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. That is still Facebook violating my privacy. How about if I create a virtual profile of you on a page of my website, list it in a search engine, and provide unverified (and likely false) information about you that can also be damaging? Would your feelings change or would you continue to let me run your public profile out of principle as you've described here? 2. I have already answered this. I deleted it. I'm happ…

I didn't see the other post and I believe you. If you say you deleted it, and they didn't, I think we'd both agree that's a problem they should fix or change. I think the issues you're describing don't have anything to do with the social media service aspect, but more like bad practices of an online company. So I'd agree we should push for online tech companies to fix many issues, including security issues and offsit…

Sure, there are probably multiple ways we can improve the ecosystem with the same net effect.

> But I don't believe in your original argument that we should abolish social media, because a lot of people want to use social media and it's not your right to stop them.

I'm happy to give up decentralization or abolishment if someone can find a way to ensure that social media is treated like the extension to free speech that it is, that privacy is ensured strongly, and that virality is a thing of the past.

Re: FTC issues orders to nine social media and video streaming services

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it would not.

Training itself can take 6 weeks+

Out of what experience you came to that conclusion may I ask?

We are talking about experts here not newbies.

Re: FTC issues orders to nine social media and video streaming services

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Training itself can take 6 weeks+

Out of what experience you came to that conclusion may I ask? We are talking about experts here not newbies.

Experts in what? I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

Re: FTC issues orders to nine social media and video streaming services

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you justify why Amazon should be covered and Apple shouldn't be? Your justification applies to both.

Amazon owns Twitch, which is both a social media site and a video streaming service.

Very reasonable.

Re: FTC issues orders to nine social media and video streaming services

#196
post #167
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By some metrics, iMessage is the biggest messaging service in the US. Arguably, from the POV of the FTC as a US regulator, WhatsApp shouldn't be included but Apple SHOULD be. This is of course ignoring other social features of Apple products such as Game Center, Find My Friends and Facetime.

Apple Message is a message service. Its features include a way to personalize messages. It's not collecting personal/demographic information, it's not trying to increase user engagement (addictiveness), it's not serving ads. So, it clearly is outside the scope of the information that the FTC is trying to gather.

> It's not collecting personal/demographic information

Sure is! On my iCloud account, Apple has my address, my location, the location of all of my devices, my Apple Card is tied directly to purchases, and much more!

Did you know iMessage specifically even used to be linked directly to Facebook's evil social graph?

> it's not trying to increase user engagement (addictiveness)

Citation? I would bet a large amount of money that Apple is trying to increase engagement. Why do you think they make products like memoji or features like pinned threads?

> it's not serving ads.

True! But, uh, is WhatsApp? https://www.wsj.com/articles/whatsapp-backs-off-controversia...

Here's iMessage generating revenue through the sale of Apps that integrate with it: https://www.fastcompany.com/3063925/apples-imessage-economy-...

Did you know the App Store has a recommendation system to suggest apps to you? It's based on the other apps that you purchase and possibly other signals that I'm not aware of. Apple, of course, gets its 30% cut of that.

Re: FTC issues orders to nine social media and video streaming services

#197
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LinkedIn has a lot of teens on it actually. Very talented teens some, others are teens of average talent level. But they do have teens. They are also about 3 times bigger than discord. I think you could argue either way, because there may be a larger absolute number of teens on discord? The numbers are not broken out enough to tell. But given the nature of what we're dealing with, I wouldn't discount the idea of them…

Somehow if my teenaged kids spent as much time in LinkedIn networking business relationships as they did in Snapchat I wouldn't quite mind as much. Regardless, I think you've missed the part where the FTC said what they were gathering information on, e.g. "how[social media] practices affect children and teens."

I think you've missed the part where the FTC said what they were gathering information on, e.g. "how[social media] practices affect children and teens."

I didn't miss that part.

That's why I said that I don't trust people who say they are "thinking of the children". If you trust their intentions, well, we can peaceably agree to disagree.

Re: FTC issues orders to nine social media and video streaming services

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's in the press release: >The FTC is issuing the orders under Section 6(b) of the FTC Act, which authorizes the Commission to conduct wide-ranging studies that do not have a specific law enforcement purpose.

My read of Section 6(b) (from [0]) is that it requires the FTC to prescribe specific questions for a company to answer: > the Commission may prescribe annual or special, or both annual and special, reports or answers in writing to specific questions I do not see how the requirements of part 12 of this Order are "specific questions," in fact they are quite broad to me. But I suppose that's for a lawyer to decide. [0]:…

Does the order state if the summitted answers will be made public?

Re: FTC issues orders to nine social media and video streaming services

#199
post #196
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Message is a message service. Its features include a way to personalize messages. It's not collecting personal/demographic information, it's not trying to increase user engagement (addictiveness), it's not serving ads. So, it clearly is outside the scope of the information that the FTC is trying to gather.

> It's not collecting personal/demographic information Sure is! On my iCloud account, Apple has my address, my location, the location of all of my devices, my Apple Card is tied directly to purchases, and much more! Did you know iMessage specifically even used to be linked directly to Facebook's evil social graph? > it's not trying to increase user engagement (addictiveness) Citation? I would bet a large amount of mo…

[deleted]

Re: FTC issues orders to nine social media and video streaming services

#200
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems interesting - clearly the friction in sharing everything with everyone is far lower online than before. Before, you had to consume finite resources (time, energy, postage stamps, etc.) to tell someone else about something. This gave a natural rate limit. As a thought experiment, what if the degrees of separation were less rigidly enforced, but people's "power of voice" decays the further it goes from those…

Any governmental rules restricting who can talk to whom or to how many others will run into first amendment issues, at least in the USA.

Not disagreeing, but I do wonder how the first amendment sits with regards to no guaranteed audience - you can likely be free to say something, while still having others free not to amplify it indefinitely.

To an extent I think the big digital platforms already do this, just in a non transparent way, to try to curate the most engaging and click-worthy content, rather than the most thought provoking.

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