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Growl in Retirement

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Re: Growl in Retirement

#191

Post by pmontra »

darkwizard42 wrote: post #82
matheusmoreira wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully Linux will be the operating system to benefit from increased development. I simply don't understand why developers keep investing their time on platforms that are openly hostile to them. These posts were written decades ago: http://www.paulgraham.com/road.html https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... > If you want to write desktop software now you do it on Microsoft's terms, calling t…

It’s because no one (mainstream) uses Linux. Developers make these projects and still want lots of users and people to find use in the products. Developing for Linux leaves you with a smaller range of users than Windows and Mac.

I know many developers working on Linux laptops (web backends.) I do since 2009. Would I develop some GUI tool with the aim to sell it? No chance. Gnome or KDE, apt, yum, flatpack, snap, etc? No thank you. I take what's available and that's it. Ubuntu has proven for 11 years that's more than enough to give me a desktop I like (currently a heavily customized Gnome Shell) and pay my bills.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#192

Post by ChrisGrowl »

kergonath wrote: post #182
ChrisGrowl wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never used macOS until OS X and most definitely did not copy it. Nothing about Growl was a copy of that. Growl was inspired from being project manager on Adium and worked with the people making colloquy. The devs on colloquy were working on notifications and so we’re we and I thought it was smarter to make it a separate tool.

It just illustrates how natural the concept is. I don’t mean that in a bad way; it’s such an elegant solution and I would not be surprised to see other implementations before MacOS 9. Anyway, Growl did much more than that, and I don’t think there is any doubt Apple’s current implementation owes a lot to your design.

Yea I just wanted to clear up the inspiration bit. I’m sure if we hadn’t done it someone else would have.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#193

Post by jxdxbx »

liquidise wrote: post #6

> Without Growl I do not know that we would have any sort of decent notification system in OS X They are right to say this, as the current Notifications system in OS X is ripped nearly pixel-for-pixel from Growl's implementation a decade ago. Like Spaces, Quicksilver, Cover Flow and others, Growl paved the way for a lot of the usability enhancements OS X gobbled up in recent years. Apple folks: take note. These are r…

Apple bought Cover Flow. And then retired the concept for the most part since it really wasn't that good of an idea.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#194

Post by bipson »

supermatt wrote: post #178
josteink wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been living in Norway since I was born back in the 70s. We’ve never had carrier-branded phones. Not one. Only thing sold has been generic phones which accepts a generic SIM. And that’s how the market is supposed to work. Free competition on devices. Free competition on service. Customers can combine as they like. Granted you could buy carrier-locked phones rebated through a contract, but the carrier lock was tim…

You said "in Europe", when you must have meant "in Norway". In the UK there were DEFINITELY carrier branded phones, tethering was disabled by many carriers, and you couldn't even use a regular SIM card in a non-phone device - you needed a "data sim". I travelled around Europe for 2 years using local SIM cards - and also encountered carriers which disabled tethering. There were even android apps specifically to work a…

Same for Austria, which interestingly was considered a "test-market" for international carriers, thus we always had the cheaper contracts and some novel business models quite some time before the rest of the EU (unfortunately not network generations or coverage in general).

The answer is money. Tethering was usually not allowed but you could buy in. You get phones for free, but only if you pay 40€+ a month for the next 2 years for something you actually don't need. E.g. some unlimited services (streaming) while your general data is capped.

I haven't been in the market for such contracts for quite a few years, this has changed a lot in recent times due to "contract-less" cheap providers gobbling up the marketshare. And these packages always disappeared over time and became standard. I don't think tethering is not allowed anywhere anymore.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#195

Post by pornel »

dochtman wrote: post #181
mortenjorck wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s one issue, which is that of “Sherlocking” a third-party solution with a first-party implementation. Then there’s another, which is having an open enough system to support such innovations in the first place. Something like Growl, or f.lux (mentioned down-thread) could never have come about if macOS had been as restrictive as iOS. I have little doubt that we’ve missed at least a few such innovations over past…

It's interesting to think about the fact that, now that Macs are starting to be differentiated more by hardware (again, due to Apple Silicon) than software, Apple might actually allow more tweaking/low-level access to do interesting stuff.

Performance of A14X is almost the same as M1, but it only became a sensation when the CPU was allowed to run macOS.

Think about it: Apple already had an awesome CPU, but hardly anybody noticed, because iPad OS is so limited.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#196

Post by [deleted] »

endgame wrote: post #68
mortenjorck wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s one issue, which is that of “Sherlocking” a third-party solution with a first-party implementation. Then there’s another, which is having an open enough system to support such innovations in the first place. Something like Growl, or f.lux (mentioned down-thread) could never have come about if macOS had been as restrictive as iOS. I have little doubt that we’ve missed at least a few such innovations over past…

Well, yeah. Important things like tethering would never have made it into iOS if Apple hadn't been dragged there by the jailbreakers.

[deleted]

Re: Growl in Retirement

#197

Post by anonymoushn »

ck425 wrote: post #162
anonymoushn wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Spaces an app before it was a feature? Currently I'm using third party software to pretend I have Spaces instead of the awful thing that replaced it.

What are you using our of curiosity? I used to use the amazing TotalSpaces but with recent versions of OSx it was no longer able to work. Now I've just gotten used to OSx's shite version but I really miss using a grid

I'm using TotalSpaces on Catalina. The web site says it works on Big Sur but not on Apple Silicon. A developer posted that a future release will be compatible with Apple Silicon: https://discuss.binaryage.com/t/future-support-of-apple-sili...

Re: Growl in Retirement

#198

Post by tpm »

josteink wrote: post #172
tpm wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did have a say, before iPhone and Android happened, devices have been branded, sim-locked, locked down etc by the carriers. I think they mostly stopped doing that in recent years.

I’ve been living in Norway since I was born back in the 70s. We’ve never had carrier-branded phones. Not one. Only thing sold has been generic phones which accepts a generic SIM. And that’s how the market is supposed to work. Free competition on devices. Free competition on service. Customers can combine as they like. Granted you could buy carrier-locked phones rebated through a contract, but the carrier lock was tim…

I am pretty sure carrier-branded phones were a thing in Central Europe (Slovakia, Czechia, Austria, Germany etc) for many years. As the owners of carriers were also French (Orange) or Spanish (Telefonica/O2), I suspect they present there too. So no, not backwards at all.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#199

Post by ChrisGrowl »

cytzol wrote: post #19
liquidise wrote: post #6

> Without Growl I do not know that we would have any sort of decent notification system in OS X They are right to say this, as the current Notifications system in OS X is ripped nearly pixel-for-pixel from Growl's implementation a decade ago. Like Spaces, Quicksilver, Cover Flow and others, Growl paved the way for a lot of the usability enhancements OS X gobbled up in recent years. Apple folks: take note. These are r…

> These are real, material examples of the benefit brought by developers being on your side. I think it actually goes a little further. Growl is (was) a fantastic notifications system, but it wouldn't have succeeded without the healthy ecosystem of third-party programs that were willing to use it. When I installed it, long long ago, everything I wanted notifications from suddenly supported them. If the developers had…

That’s really the key to our success with it, but it’s more. When a user found out about Growl and liked it, then they would request one or two app devs to add it. Those app devs did, the. Their users got it. Rinse and repeat. So it’s both developers and users who made it possible.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#200

Post by ChrisGrowl »

varenc wrote: post #16
liquidise wrote: post #6

> Without Growl I do not know that we would have any sort of decent notification system in OS X They are right to say this, as the current Notifications system in OS X is ripped nearly pixel-for-pixel from Growl's implementation a decade ago. Like Spaces, Quicksilver, Cover Flow and others, Growl paved the way for a lot of the usability enhancements OS X gobbled up in recent years. Apple folks: take note. These are r…

How should Apple have handled this? Maybe insisted on acquiring the Growl company? I don't think Apple should have just avoided building Notification Center, since that's a big net benefit for everyone. If an acquisition is rejected/infeasible/not applicable/etc, then I'm not clear on the right thing to do. Acquisition might have been possible with Growl, but for some other cases there's not even a company to acquire…

Acquisition by Apple would have been an option if they had contacted us.
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