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Beirut Port Explosion

forensic-architecture.org

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Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#191

Post by iSnow »

smsm42 wrote: post #186
jcranmer wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, the warehouse was a collection of confiscated goods by customs at the port. So I can easily see that the managers at the warehouse didn't know and didn't care about proper safety storage procedures for these hazardous goods, since they hadn't been planning to acquire them in the first place. (In US legal terms, this would be recklessness). However, evidently some people (their affiliation is n…

TBH it is a really sucky problem to solve... As I understand the goods got there from some shipping company that in the meantime went bankrupt. The port authorities weren't able to just make 2KT of ammonium nitrate disappear - and probably were legally not allowed to anyway. There really was nobody who was responsible for it and no procedure for getting rid of it - it's not like you can just throw it to the garbage..…

Apocryphal, but I read they tried to get the military to transport the stuff away but the explosion came before anyone decided.

It's the usual mix of carelessness, lack of security guidelines, bureaucratic inertia and corruption. How hard would it really have been to rent a warehouse outside the city to store explosive and flammable material at?

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#192

Post by iSnow »

louwrentius wrote: post #19

This was amazing to watch. Highly recommended. I do start to wonder if any of such materials are stored like this in one of our ports, such as Rotterdam, The Netherlands. I can't imagine such a mess to exist there. But The Netherlands remembers the Firework explosion in Enschede, from 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enschede_fireworks_disaster It's not nearly at the scale of Beirut, but it killed 23 people.

Well, if you remember the horrible port explosion in Tianjin, it seems not unlikely, China is a major exporter to Europe. The west probably has better site safety rules and hazmat regulations in place, though.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#193

Post by iguy »

ubrpwnzr wrote: post #47
kqvamxurcagg wrote: post #2

This is incredible and I can only imagine how much time this took to create. Definitely also worth taking a look at their previous investigations at https://forensic-architecture.org/ .

Everything about reporting this way is amazing, it’s an aspiring goal for on watchers of what data can provide. As you watch this you know that grant money is working hard here. Much respect for such a talented team bringing in complex engineering for all to consume.

> you know that grant money is working hard here

Am I the only one who finds this a little disturbing?

I mean the thing is beautifully produced, no doubt, I don't want to take anything away from the skills of the people who made it.

But the slickness moves it somehow from "scrappy bunch who gathered all the open data & collaboratively figured stuff out" into a different category. More like "someone with very deep pockets wants to tell me a particular story". Like getting the sort of 10-page glossy brochure they use to sell manhattan penthouses, but it's from the local animal shelter... and there's nothing wrong with the kitten pictures, the photography is excellent, but you wonder a bit who paid all those professionals, and why.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#194

Post by iSnow »

gridspy wrote: post #167
yyyk wrote: post #71

This investigation ignores a key question: How many kg of ammonium nitrate was actually in the warehouse. Surely that's extremely important to the models. They only mention an mtv news report mentioning the stated figure of 2750t. That figure comes from the ship's documents. Yet there are estimates that suggest the actual explosion is only equivalent to 1000-1500t[0], or 700-1000t[1]. If the actual amount of nitrate…

Important source material to consider this question is [0] "Lebanon blast: Ammonium nitrate behind many industrial accidents" Basically the AN is an oxidizer and as such a chemical that "intensifies combustion" and so must not be combined with fuel or oil. Since it was contaminated, the contaminants are potentially combustable themselves. The warehouse was also likely filled with partially combusted gases from the ty…

Nah, you can detonate AN by itself, the oxygen from the nitrate part happily oxidizes the ammonium which will cause the nitrogen to depart the compound and release a lot of energy and gas. The contaminants just enable the reaction to switch from burning through deflagration to detonation.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#196

Post by Sam777666 »

bredren wrote: post #26

In the past this kind of material would be collected and analyzed by state intelligence services. Combined by allies and used to gain leverage for individual or combined strategic priorities. Something like, “Here is how negligent you were. Install this person in power or we leak this and your people revolt and you won’t be able to walk away.” More recently, it seems, some news organizations have begun assembling rep…

NGO research groups are not as innocent as they appear.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#197

Post by commentrix »

jordan_curve wrote: post #150
spurgu wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, fair enough. But then again those coalitions aren't generally static, but formed around circumstances, and thus don't necessarily create the same kind of blind team mentality that we see in sports for example. And the parties within the coalitions are still aware of their internal differences, they just choose to work together for a common cause, for a period of time.

That’s how it works in the U.S. as well. The political parties are made up of coalitions of voters and over time certain groups shift or change affiliation.

Quick @dang, come in! People are talking politics on HN, shut it down! /s

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#198

Post by dukeyukey »

philwelch wrote: post #170
jeromegv wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The typical third party in Canada is NDP, which has had support between 15-25% of the vote within the last decade depending on the election. Which is quite different and quite more than the Libertarian party in the USA which has a very negligible influence. They also have been in power within a few provinces quite frequently. I don't think Canada was your best pick to make your point.

NDP won fewer seats than Bloc Québécois in the last election. And it’s worth pointing out, I think, that the most prominent US politician who would be aligned with the NDP ideologically, Bernie Sanders, is actually an independent rather than a Democrat.

> NDP won fewer seats than Bloc Québécois

That's mostly because Bloc Québécois is concentrated in a specific province, and often specific parts of that province, while the NDP's support is spread across all the provinces.

It's the same in the UK, where the Lib Dems got triple the vote of the SNP, but less than a quarter of the seats.

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#199

Post by [deleted] »

holler wrote: post #79

From a laymen's perspective, it's hard to imagine just how negligent the port authorities could have been in managing the warehouse. 2750tons high-explosive Ammonium Nitrate? Check. 50tons Ammonium Phosphate? Check. Stacks of flammable wooden pallets among Ammonium Nitrate? Check. 1000 flammable rubber car tires? Check. 23tons of explosive fireworks? 5 rolls of detonator cord? Check. I mean... how/why?

[deleted]

Re: Beirut Port Explosion

#200

Post by dredmorbius »

dredmorbius wrote: post #122
emteycz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely better. Facebook won't make you disappear.

Facebook, willingly or not, is part of the same entities' sourcing and influencing activities. We know this as established fact. Both your side's and various multipolar others.

Snowden. Cambridge Analytica. Cozy Bear. Black Cube.

"How the U.S. Military Buys Location Data from Ordinary Apps" https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgqm5x/us-military-location-... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25113117)

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