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Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

nytimes.com

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Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#191

Post by lwansbrough »

centimeter wrote: post #5
lwansbrough wrote: post #2

I had my first gout attack on August 14th 2018 at just 24, following a night filled with liquor and red meat. Though I’ve gone through periods of continuous activity, it’s safe to say I lead a somewhat sedentary life. Today, at 26, I have been free of major gout symptoms since my first attack 2 years ago. Though I occasionally get mild inflammation in my gout-prone foot if I stray too far from my diet, I’ve been effe…

I don't believe the current scientific consensus has meat consumption as a risk factor for gout. I read a paper recently that specifically mentioned that simple sugars (glucose, fructose, sucrose) and purine. Purine is present in quantity in certain organ meats, but not meats that most people eat frequently, and you're more likely to get it from legumes.

I'm not concerned what scientists think about meat. This is not a theoretical problem for me and cutting out red meat has kept my uric acid levels nominal.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#192

Post by SECProto »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #165
sqldba wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very simplistic way of looking at things which isn’t supported by medical science. Specifically glucose, fructose, sucrose, are worth treating differently for the purposes of diet management.

It is simplistic, but for most people it is probably a great start. When people talk about sugar like this they are talking about fructose. Bringing glucose into it confuses people since it is scientifically sugar, but not what people mean when they talk about eating sugar, which is just eating sweets, soda, juice, etc.

> When people talk about sugar like this they are talking about fructose. Bringing glucose into it confuses people

I believe people are actually usually talking about sucrose, which breaks down into equal parts fructose and glucose v early in digestion.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#193

Post by darkerside »

easytiger wrote: post #187
darkerside wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is something diet aggravated but not diet related? Seems like all these people who claim there's no _meaningful_ correlation here are just setting goalposts in a way where they don't feel compelled to change their diets.

It's not caused by diet in 85% of cases. It can be aggravated by diet if you have it. You can't seriously tell me you don't see the difference?

Easy, tiger. So you meant to say 15% of cases were primarily caused by diet? That's a much more sensible statement.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#194

Post by easytiger »

darkerside wrote: post #193
easytiger wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not caused by diet in 85% of cases. It can be aggravated by diet if you have it. You can't seriously tell me you don't see the difference?

Easy, tiger. So you meant to say 15% of cases were primarily caused by diet? That's a much more sensible statement.

My original statement was in a comment thread that had already asserted that, I was adding a statistic and both comments are still correct.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#195

Post by CyberDildonics »

SECProto wrote: post #192
CyberDildonics wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is simplistic, but for most people it is probably a great start. When people talk about sugar like this they are talking about fructose. Bringing glucose into it confuses people since it is scientifically sugar, but not what people mean when they talk about eating sugar, which is just eating sweets, soda, juice, etc.

> When people talk about sugar like this they are talking about fructose. Bringing glucose into it confuses people I believe people are actually usually talking about sucrose, which breaks down into equal parts fructose and glucose v early in digestion.

Fructose is the monosaccharide and is the problem. It doesn't always come from sucrose.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#196

Post by milesward »

LeCow wrote: post #30

Dispelling bullshit time. Gout isn't caused by what you eat, it's an underlying problem with your kidneys/liver/body and an inability to extract uric acid. It can be exasterbated by drinking beer, dehydration, red meat etc. Saying it's caused by what you eat is a bit like saying peanuts cause peanut allergies, or eating gluten causes coeliacs. You already have the condition, the things you eat makes it worse. I've be…

While true, I can't edit my kidneys/liver/body yet, so for now I need to edit diet. My experience: Keto eliminated my gout flareups (eliminating fructose/beer, but gorging on beef), and Vegan has done the same (eliminate meat, add back in some fruits, still not much beer). The standard American diet is a pox...

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#197

Post by Anthony-G »

paranoidrobot wrote: post #18
lwansbrough wrote: post #2

I had my first gout attack on August 14th 2018 at just 24, following a night filled with liquor and red meat. Though I’ve gone through periods of continuous activity, it’s safe to say I lead a somewhat sedentary life. Today, at 26, I have been free of major gout symptoms since my first attack 2 years ago. Though I occasionally get mild inflammation in my gout-prone foot if I stray too far from my diet, I’ve been effe…

I had mine at about the same age or maybe a little younger - my foot was so swollen, and so sensitive that doctors couldn't believe it was anything other than a break, sprain or some other gross damage. When the X-Ray came back clear, and a blood test showed high Uric Acid they were stunned. Still, I had no further symptoms for several years. Then I had another, then it became a yearly thing and now I'm on Allopurino…

Wow! Until I read the last sentence, I was going to suggest using a walking stick as a visual way of signalling to others that you have some sort of disability and can’t just quickly move out of their way. As a (mostly) healthy and regular pedestrian, I come across the groups you mention – and those who walk with their eyes glued to their phone, expecting others to move out of their way. I really would’ve thought that they’d show more consideration to older people or others, such as your uncle, who are obviously less sprightly. :(

I love going for walks and every now and again, I have to remind myself that I’m lucky to be able to do so and shouldn’t take it for granted. Best wishes to you and others who don’t have the same luxury.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#198

Post by phobosanomaly »

abstractbarista wrote: post #136
chewz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not want to squash your hopes but with dietary changes alone it is not possible to stop progression of gout. In a few years you will probably start having more frequent attacks. Lossing weight is little more effective. Keeping your uric acid well below 6.0 mg/dL is when the process starts very very slowly reversing. Fortunately there is a better understanding of the dissease and more new therapies in the pipelin…

That doesn't seem quite right. If your diet consists only of things that do not metabolize into uric acid, how can you experience gout? It might require a very strict diet, but surely this is possible?

It's not just direct metabolism of stuff in the diet. Your body indirectly makes stuff that is then metabolized into uric acid (e.g. your DNA). Could be making too much, could not be excreting enough.

"Many factors contribute to hyperuricemia, including genetics, insulin resistance, iron overload, hypertension, hypothyroidism, chronic kidney disease, obesity, diet, use of diuretics (e.g. thiazides, loop diuretics), and excessive consumption of alcoholic beverages. Of these, alcohol consumption is the most important."

"Causes of hyperuricemia can be classified into three functional types: increased production of uric acid, decreased excretion of uric acid, and mixed type. Causes of increased production include high levels of purine in the diet and increased purine metabolism. Causes of decreased excretion include kidney disease, certain drugs, and competition for excretion between uric acid and other molecules. Mixed causes include high levels of alcohol and/or fructose in the diet, and starvation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperuricemia#Increased_produc...

Purines and pyrimidines make up the two groups of nitrogenous bases, including the two groups of nucleotide bases. Two of the four deoxyribonucleotides (deoxyadenosine and deoxyguanosine) and two of the four ribonucleotides (adenosine, or AMP, and guanosine, or GMP), the respective building blocks of DNA and RNA, are purines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purine

Could just be a bad roll of the genetic dice with a dash of lifestyle.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#199

Post by Anthony-G »

coldtea wrote: post #32
p1necone wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"alternative opinions" are not science.

All opinions on a forum are "alternative opinions". We can't tell if somebody is a scientist here, or whether they're talking shit or not, or whether the consensus (like in many cases) are old wives tales (like "fat is bad for you"). Even peer reviewed papers are "alternative opinions". Unless it has been peer reviewed in several papers, repeated, empirically proven, and got into textbooks, I wouldn't consider anythi…

Agreed. I take new, exciting findings with a hefty dollop of salt. I’m prepared to wait for replication of findings and/or a meta-analysis of a large body of work before taking medical or health-based research too seriously.

Re: Once the disease of gluttonous aristocrats, gout is now tormenting the masses

#200

Post by trevyn »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #15
xref wrote: post #6

I watch/read a lot of history and I am always curious, if you traveled back in time how would you treat gout? Without medications to manage uric acid what would you do for Ben Franklin, DaVinci, Michelangelo or Charlemagne? Have them lose weight? Stay away from foods X, Y, and Z but eat more of A/B/C? Does exercise help/hurt? Are there any herbs etc that we know today would lower uric acid which you could find with y…

Some people believe that cherry juice can negate the effects but by far Prednisone works at relieving the pain, almost to the point of seeming like a magic pill. Unfortunately it is a short lasting treatment as after a few times it quickly becomes less effective and it has side effects such as mood swings. But take a 50mg pill when you can't walk and an hour later you're dancing. So I guess if I was a time traveler I…

I would be very, very careful with Prednisone; it does not have a friendly risk profile.
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