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Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

blog.jacopo.io

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Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#191
post #187
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple hasn’t banned any developers who stand against them.

I've noticed you have a very apple apologetic stance about this issue and are very active in replying to these articles, far more than the typical HN user. It's gotten to the point where I've noticed your username now. Why is that?

You'd be more aligned with HN values by refuting parent's point with examples than making ad hom attacks.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#192

While other posts on this topic are too alarmist, this one is way too Apple apologetic for my taste. * There is no information on how often the validation happens. All this investigation concludes is that it doesn't happen when closing and immediately re-opening an app. Is it every week? Every reboot? Every hour? If it's less, that's essentially the same as doing it on every launch. * There is no justification for se…

The loop argument makes no sense at all. HTTP is being used as a transport for a base64-encoded payload, the actual process of veryfing the validity of the developer certificate is done by the service behind that Apple URL - not by the HTTP stack.

There is no justification not to switch to HTTPS here.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#193

While other posts on this topic are too alarmist, this one is way too Apple apologetic for my taste. * There is no information on how often the validation happens. All this investigation concludes is that it doesn't happen when closing and immediately re-opening an app. Is it every week? Every reboot? Every hour? If it's less, that's essentially the same as doing it on every launch. * There is no justification for se…

> [article] editing your /etc/hosts file. Personally, I wouldn’t suggest doing that as it prevents an important security feature from working. Exactly the apologetic that you are talking about. Everyone has a different security update cadence (e.g. patch Tuesday for Microsoft), but each application launch is not a reasonable one. Given Apple's recent propensity for banning developers who stand against them (whether y…

I don’t see how you can so confidently reach that conclusion. It seems perfectly plausible that Apple wants a way to quickly quash malware, worms, etc.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#194
I have always been annoyed by OCSP being HTTP. It is really the fault of the standard that this is the way we revoke certificates. I basically agree that Apple should just be downloading revoked certificates and checking them locally. This is what we are doing at various SaaS companies that have to check these in order to avoid downtime. We have also mistakenly failed-closed. We now default to fail-open but customers have the option to change that if they are paranoid.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no executable hash in the request, so I don't understand why you bring it up

Developer certificate IDs are almost a 1:1 match with which app you’re running.

To use one of the original examples, how many different applications are signed with the developer key of the Tor browser project?

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and that apple wants to merge its operating systems

No they don’t. They keep adding new ones. They want to provide a consistent user experience across their ecosystem. Not the same thing.

Unfortunately the consistency is moving in the direction of iOS rather than macOS.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#199
post #189
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of kinds of malware are harmful each time they are launched, not just once.

The risk of launching malware a second+ time seems substantially less than the privacy leak caused by more frequent checks.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-update-kills-off-zoom-we...

This was a seriously exploitable issue that was a problem every time it was run.

I agree that this certificate mechanism is absurdly problematic.

That doesn’t justify dismissing the security risks it was intended to prevent.

Re: Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look

#200
post #133
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't an anonymity scheme such as [1] work in this context? Send only part of the hash of the app's certificate, and have the server send you all possible revoked certificates? [1]: https://blog.cloudflare.com/validating-leaked-passwords-with...

As the set of certificates is bounded and known by apple, they can also adopt crlite and just push all CRLs they have to all users, using CRLite. https://github.com/mozilla/crlite

I assumed there were too many revoked certificates for something like this to be viable, but I'm not surprised it is.

You probably can't update the whole list that often though, compared to Apple's current OCSP revalidate time of 5 min. [edit: seems "delta patches" are supported by crlite so maybe that can work too]

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