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Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]

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Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]

#191
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_Cit... Stop and Frisk is widely believed to be proof that police are disproportionately targeting black people, and it seems interactions with police end in death more for black people than white people.

There are many other reasons some groups may have higher interactions with the police than others, including high rates of absentee fathers, drug addiction and poverty.

Sure, and the war on drugs delivered crack to black people and got them addicted and put them in jail. You're being obtuse if you think black people are more likely to be absentee fathers, drug addicted, and impoverished by the nature of their genetics.

Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]

#192
HN claims to be non-ideological but, whenever there's a post on race, gender, etc., the anti-racist and anti-sexist viewpoints are downvoted or flagged just for explaining reality. Meanwhile the milquetoast, uncritical, ignorant, and "alt-right" are widely supported.

Some people here might know "how to code", but it's clear they never learned analysis, criticism, empiricism, etc.

Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there is quite simple and obvious evidence of discrimination: the percentage of technical jobs which go to women. Not accepting this as evidence and demanding that your own standards for evidence are met (without saying exactly what that would involve, so you could later reject any other evidence that is provided) before allowing any corrective action, is yet another way that this discrimination is perpetuated.

When I studied CS and electrical engineering we started with 120 students. 5 were women. 15 students made it in regular time from which 1 was a women. You conclusion isn't obvious, on the contrary, there are contradictions. Where should the women in tech have come from? Would you also think that nurses discriminate against men? No, you only think discrimination is an issue in spaces where men are overrepresented. Tha…

> When I studied CS and electrical engineering we started with 120 students... 15 students made it in regular time

That sounds like a shockingly badly organised course with many barriers to success. Such barriers to success are likely to fall harder on women and minorities (who are more likely to have caring duties, less support in their social network, and will face general discrimination).

With even the facts you have given, it would be unsurprising to me that disproportionately few women bother to apply: even ridiculously fewer women start than on a typical course.

I would be embarrassed if I were an educator or organiser for that course.

> Would you also think that nurses discriminate against men?

No. Although this is not directly analogous to anything I have said, I am giving a good faith answer. I think that nursing is an underpaid profession because it is seen as women's work - just as caring work is often unpaid. I'm not aware that men face significant barriers when they choose to enter nursing.

The careers in which men are over-represented and women are under-represented tend to be highly-paid and/or prestige jobs. So, that's quite a different situation and points to societal discrimination by gender against women.

Computer Science as an industry is relevant here in that: women were initially over-represented, until it came to be seen as a prestige career and started garnering higher pay, and now they are increasingly under-represented.

Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm that at least two FAANG companies explicitly give diversity points to recruiters. That is, hiring a "diverse" candidate is worth ~1.5x as much to them as a non-diverse candidate for the same role. They are cagey about the exact details of who is included at a given time. But I do know it varies by rule.

Honestly, I think this is a worse situation than before.

Of course it is. Using unchangeable physical characteristics is terrible and what we should eliminate it completely.

Unfortunately the political correct movement today has decided that racial discrimination is best solved with even more racial discrimination.

Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the effort to redefine discrimination as "prejudice plus power" so that certain people can justify their discrimination.

> Hence the effort to redefine discrimination as "prejudice plus power" "Discrimination" is not the word that that phrase is (controversially) used to define. ("Racism" originally, and "sexism" based on the use for "racism", yes; discrimination, no.)

It's wrong in every case.

Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A link to a Wikipedia article about stop-and-frisk in NYC is not exactly compelling data for the extraordinary claim of one racial group "systemically killing" another. But fine, let's take a cursory look at this article: search for the words "murder", "death", and "kill". All hits yield no references to systemic murder of black people by another racial group. There is, however, a discussion about how minority groups…

Are you actually saying stop and frisk isn't compelling data for systemic racism? Damn man, that's pretty much common knowledge at this point.

You claimed that there is a racial/ethnic group in American that is systemically killing another racial/ethnic group, which was outright nonsense. That is what I was addressing.

But, yes, since you bring it up, I don't believe stop-and-frisk is compelling data for systemic racism. And your appeal to common knowledge is a logical fallacy.

As Bloomberg said, there are ethnic/racial groups that are responsible for a dramatically disproportionate share of the crime in NYC. (By the way, the victims of those crimes are almost always within the same ethnic group as the perpetrator) This is especially true of violent crimes and crimes involving guns. So how do you get those guns off the street and protect people? Make it clear to the individuals who carry guns and are at risk of committing guns crimes that they will be caught if they are carrying (via stop-and-frisk).

I often wonder, for people who object so vociferously to things like stop-and-frisk, do they really think the hassle of getting stopped by a police officer exceeds the risk to the lives of people of color?

Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]

#197
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many other reasons some groups may have higher interactions with the police than others, including high rates of absentee fathers, drug addiction and poverty.

Sure, and the war on drugs delivered crack to black people and got them addicted and put them in jail. You're being obtuse if you think black people are more likely to be absentee fathers, drug addicted, and impoverished by the nature of their genetics.

I didn't state that it was because of genetics.

Re: Gender and Race Preferences in Hiring at Silicon Valley Tech Firms [pdf]

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I studied CS and electrical engineering we started with 120 students. 5 were women. 15 students made it in regular time from which 1 was a women. You conclusion isn't obvious, on the contrary, there are contradictions. Where should the women in tech have come from? Would you also think that nurses discriminate against men? No, you only think discrimination is an issue in spaces where men are overrepresented. Tha…

> When I studied CS and electrical engineering we started with 120 students... 15 students made it in regular time That sounds like a shockingly badly organised course with many barriers to success. Such barriers to success are likely to fall harder on women and minorities (who are more likely to have caring duties, less support in their social network, and will face general discrimination). With even the facts you h…

I agree that it is undervalued and maybe because it is seen as a women's job, but that part is speculation. I live in a country with stronger social systems and there are countless interests that keep the pay as low as possible. You would not find a single person that says that nursing isn't important.

As I said, you if you want to have a tech job, you currently almost can choose where to work. Men and women alike, so I cannot see that many barriers.

I don't buy into the prestige argument at all, it feels far removed from reality. I didn't pick my profession because of prestige and I don't think many people do. This isn't the showbusiness. Do you know what people with strong affinity to tech were called? Nerds. The good payrate is very recent, as are the gender discussions btw.

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