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Burnout can exacerbate work stress, further promoting a vicious circle

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Re: Burnout can exacerbate work stress, further promoting a vicious circle

#191

Post by Pyrodogg »

rubicon33 wrote: post #176

I wonder if one cause of burnout is the slot machine nature of the internet these days. What do I mean? YouTube, HackerNews, GoogleNews, Facebook, TikTok, etc... Every time you hit one of these websites, it's like rolling the dice at a casino. Sometimes, you roll the dice and you win. So you want to roll more. Similarly, sometimes you load up YouTube, and it recommends you a good video. So you come back, looking for…

Social media induced "doom scrolling" almost needs a Surgeon General warning like nicotine packaging.

Re: Burnout can exacerbate work stress, further promoting a vicious circle

#192

Post by AntiImperialist »

ehnto wrote: post #190
AntiImperialist wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean countries like Norway where pay for Senior Engineers is 1/4th and the income tax is around 45% (+25% VAT on after-tax income)?

Yes, but the OP wants less pay for less work which is fair but not an option at lots of tech companies. So you either play the overwork game or don't get to play at all. That's all part of the golden handcuffs routine, along with stock holdings etc. Give your life to the company or bugger off, no middle ground. That's why I wanted to point out that it's entirely reasonable. It's just a different work/life weighting,…

Independent contract work where you bill hourly is a thing in tech and lots of people are doing it. Also, I'm sure if you really look around and are willing to make compromises in terms of pay, you can negotiate all kinds of positions with all kinds of flexibility.

In this space, I see that most people don't have what they want, mostly because they're not REALLY willing to make those compromises. I see a lot of people saying these things but they mostly want everything on top of everything else they take for granted.

Re: Burnout can exacerbate work stress, further promoting a vicious circle

#193

Post by giantg2 »

ciceryadam wrote: post #188
giantg2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a house and one kid. My wife wants another kid and complains that out house is too small (it's 1800 sqft). I hate my job but have no other options to support us. I honestly wonder how I did not listen to all the advice of other people about not getting married. Even at this same job I was much happier years ago. Part of that was because I hadn't been disillusioned yet, but I think part of it was also that I ha…

My sister and I grew up without separate kid rooms, and the whole apartment size was 650 sqm. Tell your wife that size doesn't matter! On a serious note, did you day to day work changed in the last couple of years? If not, you could be stuck, and you should talk to manager about getting a different set of responsibilities. Part of what's fun in IT jobs is learning new stuff.

I like to learn new things. I'm tired of being expected to know everything - they expect me to be a full stack devops for 2 stacks simultaneously. My main problem is that I became an expert in a FileNet based system and later Neoxam based system, which didn't give me many options. They outsourced the FileNet job and they cut the budget in half on the FileNet one. At least now I'm in some AWS tech.

Re: Burnout can exacerbate work stress, further promoting a vicious circle

#194

Post by Cancan82 »

motohagiography wrote: post #5

Clicked for me recently that working hard is like driving in first gear. Necessary initially, but if you don't shift up into higher gears, you're probably not doing it right, and not getting as far as fast as you probably should. If I'm tired, it's necessarily because I'm mismanaging my work and time, and that's a signal it's time to step back and figure out what's wrong. Some people are really good at that initial t…

This is hard to do. I heard a quote from like 1950 that you should work all out until you have 100k, then relax. Was said by a billionaire in why he didn’t burn out. After that, he was less stressed and did things he enjoyed more, which happened to make money.

Re: Burnout can exacerbate work stress, further promoting a vicious circle

#195

Post by nullsense »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #144
rabidrat wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dish-washing is a cost-center, not a profit-center, so really the solution is to cut costs by washing dishes as little as possible :)

Sign up for my dishes-as-a-service subscription NetDish. Get clean dishes until you stop paying. Also check out my dishwasher-sharing service Dishdash.

And your dishwashing based social media platform WashedUp

Re: Burnout can exacerbate work stress, further promoting a vicious circle

#196

Post by ehnto »

AntiImperialist wrote: post #192
ehnto wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the OP wants less pay for less work which is fair but not an option at lots of tech companies. So you either play the overwork game or don't get to play at all. That's all part of the golden handcuffs routine, along with stock holdings etc. Give your life to the company or bugger off, no middle ground. That's why I wanted to point out that it's entirely reasonable. It's just a different work/life weighting,…

Independent contract work where you bill hourly is a thing in tech and lots of people are doing it. Also, I'm sure if you really look around and are willing to make compromises in terms of pay, you can negotiate all kinds of positions with all kinds of flexibility. In this space, I see that most people don't have what they want, mostly because they're not REALLY willing to make those compromises. I see a lot of peopl…

Certainly, when I burned out was when I decided to go independent. I waver between full time hours and part time hours, depending on the work/life split I'm after at the time, but it's all contract work.

Contracting has it's own set of challenges and it's distinct from a full-time job. I take on the risk and additional challenges of contracting in order to be able to manage my own time, but it's not for everyone.

I think you're right about compromise too. Working for FANG has become a bit of a social institution and I think some people get into the false assumption that FANG and startups are the only logical options in tech. If you're willing to compromise on location, salary and prestige, you can definitely find tech jobs outside of the various bubbles.

Re: Burnout can exacerbate work stress, further promoting a vicious circle

#197

Post by joenot443 »

zjs wrote: post #156
echelon wrote: post #25

I just want a no-pay sabbatical. Three months, total reset of energy levels. We should all have that option. I would take a lot less money (-$50k or more) if I got to take a quarter off every year. Four day work weeks would be another compelling alternative. Two days a week are not enough time to get chores done. There's no time for relaxing. If I ever create a company, I'd love to offer these options.

One of my favorite benefits was the ability to take a 3 month paid pseudo-sabbatical. You had to spend the time doing some sort of work, but it's flexible. It could helping another team out (intern style), focusing on a useful side project, taking a trial run at a new role (or just walking a mile in someone else's shoes), or volunteering with a non-profit ("technology pro bono"). You needed 5 years of tenure to quali…

Would you still continue to go to the office then, just working on a different team/project?

Seems like a really great idea, but I completely agree, five years seems like an eternity at a tech company.

Re: Burnout can exacerbate work stress, further promoting a vicious circle

#198

Post by ciceryadam »

giantg2 wrote: post #193
ciceryadam wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sister and I grew up without separate kid rooms, and the whole apartment size was 650 sqm. Tell your wife that size doesn't matter! On a serious note, did you day to day work changed in the last couple of years? If not, you could be stuck, and you should talk to manager about getting a different set of responsibilities. Part of what's fun in IT jobs is learning new stuff.

I like to learn new things. I'm tired of being expected to know everything - they expect me to be a full stack devops for 2 stacks simultaneously. My main problem is that I became an expert in a FileNet based system and later Neoxam based system, which didn't give me many options. They outsourced the FileNet job and they cut the budget in half on the FileNet one. At least now I'm in some AWS tech.

Well, the AWS tech is good news, the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel! Good luck with switching mental gears to the new stack!

Re: Burnout can exacerbate work stress, further promoting a vicious circle

#199

Post by olyjohn »

ehnto wrote: post #172
titanomachy wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard (from reliable sources) that Google has the option to work 60% or 80% time (with a corresponding cut to pay). Presumably you need a record of solid performance and your manager needs to be on board.

What is 100% time out of curiosity?

When I interviewed at Microsoft, they told me it was the norm to work 50-60 hours, and that's what they expected. I'm sure it could vary from group to group.... but fuck that.

Re: Burnout can exacerbate work stress, further promoting a vicious circle

#200

Post by baxtr »

thejackgoode wrote: post #186
baxtr wrote: post #45

I quit my stressful job end of August. Luckily I have a smartwatch. By chance I checked my resting heart rate recently. I was quite shocked to see a stunning continuous 20% drop since then. I guess it was the right decision to quit.

This is the case for me as well. I have noticed similar increase (~52 => ~62 avg sleeping BPM) for the last two months and last week have been diagnosed with anxiety/depression and I am also burnt out. I love the objectivity it provides.

I went almost exactly the other way, from 65 down to 52. Fascinating that stress is visible in the data.
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