Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby (2004)

poignant.guide

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 213 posts

Re: Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby (2004)

#191

Post by michaelcampbell »

chaostheory wrote: post #159
jablan wrote: post #154

Although I am fascinated by _why's personality and his art, I think this book is partly to blame that Ruby is not as popular as it could (and should) have been. It somehow embodies that proto-hipster vibe the Ruby community used to have at the beginning, which alienated a lot of potential users. Luckily I managed to overcome that initial hurdle (the Pickaxe book helped a lot), but a lot of (good) developers I know ha…

I feel that Python is more to blame for that. When you have two similar languages but one of them takes away the paradox of choice, it’s gets evident why more people would choose Python in the end. I don’t get the hate for Why the Lucky Stiff. Why does every programming book need to be K&R? Not everyone wants to read something as dry as a white paper all the time.

> I don’t get the hate for Why the Lucky Stiff.

It's not hate.

> Why does every programming book need to be K&R?

It doesn't. Nor do NONE of them need to be.

> Not everyone wants to read something as dry as a white paper all the time.

But some do, and _why's stuff isn't that.

You answered your own question. People like different things. Some didn't like _why's stuff; I'm one. I'm sure the guy is perfectly delightful, I just didn't enjoy nor get much from his writings.

Re: Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby (2004)

#192

Post by benburton »

ornornor wrote: post #188
npsimons wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time this book is mentioned, I feel like a moron. Admitting you don't know or understand is the first step to knowledge. And this may not be a shortcoming on your end - many Great Books of literature are well-known to be good enough that you get something out of them upon each reading, hence those lists of "ten books you'd take to a deserted island." Perhaps there are technical works like that, and this is on…

Maybe. I just wish I could see what people see in this book, at least out of curiosity. To me, it’s a very convoluted way to learn ruby with a ton of irrelevant comic strips and pop culture references I don’t get that just add to the sizable cognitive load of learning a new language.

You're not alone!

Re: Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby (2004)

#193

Post by npsimons »

ornornor wrote: post #188
npsimons wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time this book is mentioned, I feel like a moron. Admitting you don't know or understand is the first step to knowledge. And this may not be a shortcoming on your end - many Great Books of literature are well-known to be good enough that you get something out of them upon each reading, hence those lists of "ten books you'd take to a deserted island." Perhaps there are technical works like that, and this is on…

Maybe. I just wish I could see what people see in this book, at least out of curiosity. To me, it’s a very convoluted way to learn ruby with a ton of irrelevant comic strips and pop culture references I don’t get that just add to the sizable cognitive load of learning a new language.

> To me, it’s a very convoluted way to learn ruby with a ton of irrelevant comic strips and pop culture references I don’t get that just add to the sizable cognitive load of learning a new language.

Fair, and to each their own. I do appreciate having cut and dry specs and whitepapers, but too often I feel that we as programmers take things too seriously and take for granted aesthetics. And while aesthetics may be subjective, for me at least, having multiple ways to approach something (like a new (to me) programming language) helps me really wrap my head around it and build a mental model.

Re: Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby (2004)

#194

Post by igravious »

ornornor wrote: post #183

Every time this book is mentioned, I feel like a moron. I learnt ruby reading books, going through the koans, the rails turorial from M. Hartl... But I could never ever understand the poignant guide to ruby. I mean, I got paid to write ruby for several years so I obviously learnt the language, but I never understood what Why’s book was about or how it could teach me ruby. Just completely went « whoosh! » over my head…

By analogy you're pretty much saying that you don't understand Sesame Street -- educational material plus silly gags. What's not to understand? It's a comic, a comic strip whose putative subject matter is the teaching of a particular programming language. What's not to get? Why does that conceptual union go over your head?

If a counting numbers tutorial can be taught by a vampire puppet in a TV show then a programming tutorial can be couched in the form of a comic strip with talking foxes.

Maybe I'm taking you too literally. I mean, are you saying that the Poignant Guide is not to your taste? I'd understand if you were saying that it isn't to your taste. But you don't appear to be saying that -- you appear to be saying that you essentially don't get how the genre is meant to work.

Consider Logicomix: An Epic Search for Truth https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Logicomix-Search-Truth-Apostolos-... -- a biographies of Frege, Russell, and Gödel and the history of predicate logic in comic book form …

Or consider The Thrilling Adventures of Lovelace and Babbage: The (Mostly) True Story of the First Computer https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Thrilling-Adventures-Lovelace-Bab... -- a history of early mechanical computer science in comic book form …

Or consider Understanding Comics: The Invisible Art by Scott McCloud https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Understanding-Comics-Invisible-Sc... -- literary criticism of the comic book form in comic book form!

Re: Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby (2004)

#196

Post by rozab »

ForHackernews wrote: post #174
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not done Python outside playing around really early on in my career during an internship, but I've never felt attracted to it; the 2 vs 3 debacle, installing the odd tool is like "what" (yeah just do `pip install this`, but first you need to install pip by using `easy_install`), and I've heard dependency management and environment setup is still quite backwards. It needs a big ecosystem and tooling overhaul for…

The Python dependency/environment management situation is slowly improving. Poetry is quite good, IMO: https://python-poetry.org/

Python dependency management is the dragon-tyrant, and Poetry slayed it. And now we all wonder why it wasn't done years ago.

Re: Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby (2004)

#197

Post by DoctorOW »

npsimons wrote: post #182
valbaca wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This about sums up most Monty Python and Rick & Morty references as well. A lot of nerd/hacker culture falls into this kind of recognition of unique humor and wit, then squeezing every little drop of joy out of it until it's as empty as a Garfield cartoon.

> A lot of nerd/hacker culture falls into this kind of recognition of unique humor and wit, then squeezing every little drop of joy out of it until it's as empty as a Garfield cartoon. Or maybe they truly enjoy it, and you're also witnessing the lucky 10,000 effect ( https://xkcd.com/1053/ )? I mean, not to be insulting, but talk about humorless . . .

I think the parent was suggesting that if you enjoy something and want to replicate that feeling in others, one won't be able to do it by simply recreating the surface elements without the context of what made it unique. Garfield is a great example. Garfield's initial popularity stemmed from him being a sharp turn from the cat depicted as the "cute, lovable pet". He was fat, judgmental, and sarcastic. Countless movies, TV shows, commercials, etc. have watered Garfield down to just a face that means nothing. Maybe there are still a lucky 10,000 for Garfield but they're not getting that same experience.

Re: Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby (2004)

#198

Post by DoctorOW »

ertian wrote: post #76
nicebyte wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't think it was even funny the first time. reading this stuff i always feel like the author is trying to keep my attention by jiggling some car keys in front of my face as if i am an infant. this applies to books like learn you a haskell too.

Eh, humor is subjective. If a person was anxious to learn Ruby ASAP and found this guide, it would've been frustratingly sparse and meandering. And the humor is too laid-back to be laugh-out-loud funny. But I think you just weren't the target audience. I found it on a dull day at school, and just kept reading the way you might a web comic. I wasn't rolling on the floor, but I cracked a smile pretty often. And I picke…

Fully agree. There are lots of "normal" programming guides for a language as popular as Ruby. This is really good at appealing to the type of person who would really like Ruby.

Re: Why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby (2004)

#199

Post by jfax »

klodolph wrote: post #139
valbaca wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This about sums up most Monty Python and Rick & Morty references as well. A lot of nerd/hacker culture falls into this kind of recognition of unique humor and wit, then squeezing every little drop of joy out of it until it's as empty as a Garfield cartoon.

Making fun of Garfield cartoons might as well be a Monty Python reference.

It's a tiresome hold-over of Something Awful culture that's been exported everywhere else.
Post reply on HN