I find the timing of this 'apology' to be somewhat analogous to that of 'Friday news dumps'.
Public Apology to Jeremy Howard
191–200 of 288 posts
Re: Public Apology to Jeremy Howard
#192Was a kangaroo court, is a kangaroo court. And that is what's wrong about this to resolve issues using a CoC. Harassment is of course real, and being a supportive organizations that helps and supports a victim in legal action is a better way to go.
Re: Public Apology to Jeremy Howard
#193I'm not going to read the comments here, for obvious reasons, but I do just want to clarify three things: - I accept the apology. - I do not accept the assertion that "At the time of the interview, the committee had not determined that there was a violation of the code of conduct, only that there were two complaints filed and being examined." The email to set up the call said "We would like to schedule a meeting so t…
We do not know each other, but I just wanted you to know that I support you!
Re: Public Apology to Jeremy Howard
#194To all of the people who hate CoCs: Just don't patronize any forum, software repo, or conference that has them. Not so easy to do, right? Same thing with people who get harassed all the time: It's not so easy for them to complain and have anyone take them seriously. Are CoCs perfect? Absolutely not. But allowing decades of harassment to continue unfettered until the most perfect solution is found, is not going to wor…
> Not so easy to do, right?
Well, there was a time when I was actually really excited about the promise of open-source software, and kept looking for ways to contribute and "join the revolution". There was a time when the thought of gathering together in a room or even a conference hall full of people who were as passionate about software development as I was sounded amazing. Now? I'll write code if you pay me to do it, otherwise I'll find other things to do with my time. Conferences? Not even for money.
Re: Public Apology to Jeremy Howard
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't mean this as an attack, You actually do mean this as an attack - you quite literally accused me of being "_dramatically_ privileged" Maybe you meant it as an attack and maybe you didn't. If there was a HN CoC, maybe I'm the kind of asshole that would try to accuse you of abuse. See how easy it is to abuse the system?
Er, how is saying that someone is "_dramatically_ privileged" an attack? It's a judgment-neutral observation. When I say that sshd runs a privileged process, I don't mean to say that sshd is morally bad (or whatever), just that it needs to be more careful than less-privileged code and that it can do things more easily than less-privileged code can. It's the same meaning of "privileged" here. (And yes, you could bring…
Attached is an implicit "and thus your opinion only perpetuates the issue", due to the inherent problem with phrasing basic rights in terms of "privilege" - the paradigm directs attention towards the people whose rights aren't being infringed as the exceptional cases, and away from the specific people responsible for the infringements.
Re: Public Apology to Jeremy Howard
#196The context for those out of the loop: https://www.fast.ai/2020/10/28/code-of-conduct/
It was a very effective response from Jeremy. He clearly describes his side of the story and convincingly explains why he thought he did nothing wrong. What is a little more troubling is that he (A) describes codes of conduct in detail and repeatedly affirms his allegiance to the general idea behind CoCs, including describing "previous sexual assault allegations" as "behaviors" he "strongly agrees" should be stopped.…
I think you are vastly overestimating the significance behind having a "previous CoC violation allegation on [one's] permanent record". Who's keeping, and enforcing on, permanent records of this sort? Every org is going to call this one for themselves, and the facts are out there.
Re: Public Apology to Jeremy Howard
#197Am I reading this correctly? It seems to say that Jeremy is still considered guilty of a CoC violation but if he appeals then the board will hear it (rather than the committee). So Jeremey has to file an appeal or the decision will stand? So the onus to fix this is on Jeremy who seems so exhausted by this whole process that he's quit conference talks? That seems a response that lacks any sense of empathy to Jeremy. e…
They're apologizing for how they handled the incident: > We apologize for causing this stress and will work to improve our process to avoid this from happening in the future. > We apologize for not communicating that clearly from the beginning. They are not apologizing for the existence of the complaints. They do not imply that Jeremy is considered guilty -- they say that the issue is unresolved: > We should have bee…
>They are not apologizing for the existence of the complaints. They do not imply that Jeremy is considered guilty -- they say that the issue is unresolved:
It's very unclear to me if they meant to say Jeremy was not guilty when they talked to him at a certain point in time or if he is still not guilty.
>Their language does not seem to put the onus on Jeremy:
What you quoted also says:
>outlined in the appeals process of our enforcement guide.
Are appeals automatic in the enforcement guide or is an appeal already pending?
edit: And if he was never found guilty then why is this an appeals process. Doesn't that usually mean an initial judgement was rendered and is being appealed?
Re: Public Apology to Jeremy Howard
#198Wow this that story where the dude said he thought the other guy was wrong. And this is their response to their handling of it.
They weren’t sure if there was a violation but responded to a couple complaints by bringing this guy in front of a committee of sorts to get to the bottom of it and are now investigating their process to ensure a better process
What a torrential tempest in the tiniest of teapots, sometime you can take yourself too seriously.
For the younger among us there was a time when you could organize a conference or group or project without conjuring a set of rules governing social interactions, and establishing processes for the addressing of rule violations and appealing said addressing.
There’s nothing to be done about it. If people enjoy being treated and treating everyone like babies then it is what it is.
Re: Public Apology to Jeremy Howard
#199Am I reading this correctly? It seems to say that Jeremy is still considered guilty of a CoC violation but if he appeals then the board will hear it (rather than the committee). So Jeremey has to file an appeal or the decision will stand? So the onus to fix this is on Jeremy who seems so exhausted by this whole process that he's quit conference talks? That seems a response that lacks any sense of empathy to Jeremy. e…
What's the point of appealing this thing, anyway? I wouldn't appeal it on the grounds that that would mean I'm conceding that they have some sort of power here. From my (naive) perspective, they really don't. Besides looking incompetent to me and (hopefully) others, this entire ordeal just looks like a huge waste of time and energy.
Re: Public Apology to Jeremy Howard
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please don't dox people in a charged thread like this. There is no point in putting their phone number or emails here.
It's not doxing if it's public info: https://numfocus.org/code-of-conduct#persons-responsible
The word doxing means different things to different people, but please don't bring anyone's personal details into a thread as ammunition in an argument or to rile up a public posse against them. That's not what HN is for.