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DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix

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Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix

#191

Post by osamagirl69 »

lucb1e wrote: post #145
zionic wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be more excited that ECC is now part of the standard, and without a speed compromise.

Why would you buy ECC RAM, have you ever seen a single bit flip or heard of anyone that did?

I have collected about a dozen single bit (corrected) errors in my home cloud, and seen 2 uncorrectable errors. I also have come across about a dozen 'bad' sticks of ram which show errors in memtest86, about half of which only have 1 bad row, and 2 of which only show errors after multiple passes which I assume is thermal based.

I do however build all of my computers from pieces from the recycling, so the statistics may be a bit off of the norm...

Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix

#192

Post by DCKing »

osamagirl69 wrote: post #190
DCKing wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could point me to a The only thing that comes to mind in that category for me is the PC Engines APU2. The APU2 is a very neat piece of kit, don't get me wrong, but it being the only option is not great either.

Intel released the Xeon D series to fill this niche https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/series/... The D-1529 can be TDP limited to 20W (at a whopping 1.3GHz), but if you goal is idle power consumption under 20w you are better off with one of the 35w TDP D-1602 since it is only a dual core and has the lowest standby consumption. The D-1518 is also a popular choice, and basically the same as the D-152…

I'm aware of the Xeon D line, but sadly that was also squarely aimed at the enterprise albeit maybe a smaller scale enterprise. It's not something you can easily go out and buy any more, and when you do it's both very expensive, still PC sized, and not any more power efficient at idle or configured TDP when compared to a new Intel workstation or new AMD setup.

Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix

#193

Post by [deleted] »

DCKing wrote: post #192
osamagirl69 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel released the Xeon D series to fill this niche https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/series/... The D-1529 can be TDP limited to 20W (at a whopping 1.3GHz), but if you goal is idle power consumption under 20w you are better off with one of the 35w TDP D-1602 since it is only a dual core and has the lowest standby consumption. The D-1518 is also a popular choice, and basically the same as the D-152…

I'm aware of the Xeon D line, but sadly that was also squarely aimed at the enterprise albeit maybe a smaller scale enterprise. It's not something you can easily go out and buy any more, and when you do it's both very expensive, still PC sized, and not any more power efficient at idle or configured TDP when compared to a new Intel workstation or new AMD setup.

[deleted]

Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix

#194

Post by Klinky »

selectodude wrote: post #186
Klinky wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD and Intel have released multiple DDR4 chipsets over there last 4~ years. The chipsets releases have hardly been related to RAM type support. Typically it's power or PCIe related, with Intel being the worst offender.

RAM support is on the CPU die. The chipset doesn't connect the CPU to RAM anymore and hasn't for a very long time.

Did I say it did?

Ryzen has seen improvements to DDR4 module support with each generation and to take advantage of the latest generation you may need to upgrade your motherboard to one with the latest chipset, depending on vendor support. Even if your older board supports the newer generation, likely you have a more limited QVL for DDR4 modules, so compatibility and perf may be limited.

This is why I implied it had limited impact, though there is some truth to boards with newer AMD chipsets offering better memory support.

This was a response to parent comment stating it was greedy behavior to try to get consumers to buy new motherboards with new chipsets, when the chipsets have little impact on RAM compatibility/support.

Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix

#195

Post by paulmd »

lucb1e wrote: post #143
DCKing wrote: post #76

One thing I'd like to understand better about DDR5 is how well the built-in ECC is going to work to improve reliability. DDR5 comes with "chip level ECC" [1] of which the main purpose is to be able to better sell highly complicated memory chips with minor defects. But as a consequence as I understand, it will allow for the correction of single bit memory flips. With regular DDR4 or previous generations, you don't get…

I actually tried really hard to get RAM to corrupt a bit for a school project and didn't manage a single bit flip. How often have you actually heard of data corruption due to non-ECC memory? Either yourself, any degree of 'friend of a friend', or perhaps a study that looked into the matter with more success than I had. I don't mean a newspaper story because exceptional cases are reported because they're rare exceptio…

hit the RAM with a hair dryer and you'll get some pretty fast

Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix

#196

Post by ryzenecc10 »

DCKing wrote: post #142
nine_k wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A number of Celerons 3XXX and 4XXX support ECC. They are intended for storage systems, like a NAS, or industrial electronics.

If you could point me to a The only thing that comes to mind in that category for me is the PC Engines APU2. The APU2 is a very neat piece of kit, don't get me wrong, but it being the only option is not great either.

I have one of these fanless Ryzen V1605B iBOX-V1000M bricks with 32GB ECC running Ubuntu 20.04:

https://mitxpc.com/products/ibox-v1000

I bought it from that page. I wanted fanless silence and I wanted ECC and it took me a long time to find this machine but found it I did and it works. Linux reports seeing the ECC is indeed enabled (edac-utils?). Measured with a Kill-a-Watt meter it does consume more than 20W (maybe 30ish IIRC?). I actually disabled some Linux power management though to get bluetooth mice and keyboards to not lag after being idle for 5 seconds so my system might draw more power than others. Drives a 4K display buttery smooth, can watch all the YouTube and Netflix you want on Linux.

Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix

#197

Post by vmception »

dkersten wrote: post #54
komali2 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't have any games worth playing on it, whereas the ps4 has an established and extensive library that would take (me, at least) quite some time to get through. Probably long enough for the ps5 to become more purchasable than a steel Daytona, unlike now where it"s apparently extremely difficult to buy

For me, I'll get a PS5 for Demons' Souls alone. When you factor in upcoming games like the new Horizon Zero Dawn next year and the graphics-upgrades like Cyberpunk 2077, its definitely worth it. Although, realistically, it'll be a few months into next year before I actually get one.

I’m liquid now, I’ll buy one.

Worst case, creditors cant take experiences from you, nor would they bother with most consumer goods.

I’m wanting to stay eligible for low rate mortgages or leases, and thats the priority but yolo. More motivation to make more before it becomes a problem, the end.

Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix

#198

Post by zlynx »

lucb1e wrote: post #145
zionic wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be more excited that ECC is now part of the standard, and without a speed compromise.

Why would you buy ECC RAM, have you ever seen a single bit flip or heard of anyone that did?

When you think about the logic of what you said, it is pretty silly.

Without ECC RAM, how would you know that you had a single bit flip? How would you know that you needed ECC RAM?

When you talk to people who run server systems, you'll find there's plenty of bit flips. This expertise is getting harder to find though, as more people run systems in the "cloud" where there's no visibility into the physical error statistics.

Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix

#199

Post by josmala »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #27
josmala wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was planning on same thing, until I estimated how much faster modern PC was at single threaded compilation tasks compared to my old one, and how it impacted my productivity. I should of upgraded earlier.

What did you move from and then to? As near as I can tell IPC haven't increased that much in the last little bit. Or was your CPU pretty old?

I thought so also, but decade of small improvements do accumulate to a large number. Something like 20% improvement 4 times would be doubling the IPC, but single threaded compilation is where I got more than that.

The after purchase testing was even better than expected. i7 920 compiled a specific compilation unit in 14 seconds. 3900x in 3.5 seconds. And that was before any tuning, I had done some bios tuning for i7 920, while 3900x I just limited the power to make it quieter. The IPC is more than double, the larger caches are probably the thing that pushes IPC beyond expectations. (I got more cores to improve scaling of multithreaded code.) Both times were recompilations where there was enough ram to have all the files cached and the the folders used where on ssd:s with modern CPU used nvme and older one SATA. Even if the nvme matters that upgrade wouldn't of been possible without getting modern MB. The make system was make, and what I used was LLVM tutorial code in single file that included many LLVM headers. The software wasn't upgraded between those runs, just moved disks from old system to new system and copied the data.

I did look before the purchase if there was IPC improvements that would of made more sense to buy new than buy some Westmere 6 core to upgrade my system. Results made it clear to me that getting any cheap new CPU would of been preferable over wasting time with getting the westmere. The IPC improvements for compilation were way higher than average IPC improvements.

But even sandy bridge was weak enough in the benchmarks that it would of made sense to upgrade from that. Before purchase I just looked from phoronix benchmarks/open benchmarking database a compilation benchmark that had worst CPU scaling for more cores and used that as approximation for single threaded compilation.

My own results were much larger than what I assumed it would of been based on comparing the sandy bridge to modern CPU:s and then multiplying that with clock speed advantage and IPC advantage of sandy bridge vs i7 920.

Oh, when I got i7 920 I decided not to upgrade until I got 8 cores. Then it was AVX-512 happened I knew I must have that so that I could play around optimizing code with it, Intel just could get it's 10nm very soon so that I could get those 8 core AVX-512 parts in reasonable price and power envelope. I just did the math, and realized wasted time because slow CPU would cost me more over next 2 years than upgrading.

Re: DDR5 Is Coming: First 64GB DDR5-4800 Modules from SK Hynix

#200

Post by nine_k »

DCKing wrote: post #192
osamagirl69 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel released the Xeon D series to fill this niche https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/series/... The D-1529 can be TDP limited to 20W (at a whopping 1.3GHz), but if you goal is idle power consumption under 20w you are better off with one of the 35w TDP D-1602 since it is only a dual core and has the lowest standby consumption. The D-1518 is also a popular choice, and basically the same as the D-152…

I'm aware of the Xeon D line, but sadly that was also squarely aimed at the enterprise albeit maybe a smaller scale enterprise. It's not something you can easily go out and buy any more, and when you do it's both very expensive, still PC sized, and not any more power efficient at idle or configured TDP when compared to a new Intel workstation or new AMD setup.

EBay offers a number of Xeon D boards at reasonable prices, many with extensive passive cooling. They have a lot of life left in them, to my mind, with good enough power efficiency for a box with normally very low CPU load. No moving parts, nothing to break. Yes, they are not speed demons, but low TDP presumes that anyway. ECC RAM support is there, though.
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