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Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

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Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#191

Post by PragmaticPulp »

csb6 wrote: post #125
dencodev wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less about education, and more about "fuck you got mine" for a website full of engineers whose average salary is probably 6x that of the average American

It’s partially self-interest, true, but speaking for Americans, there really is no widespread, institutional education on what labor unions are or do, and what benefits they can bring. Most people simply don’t think about them or believe whatever their employers’ PSAs tell them to believe because no one else ever talks about labor organizing to them.

I don’t understand this desire to dismiss any criticism of unions as ignorance. This attitude that the only way someone might oppose unionization is because they’re too dumb to understand the concept is extremely condescending.

Take a look at the current situation with police unions defending bad cops, for example. The union is just doing its job in protecting the cops, right? But in reality, this can come at the expense of others who are adjacent to the unionized employees. It’s not a simple matter of employees versus their employer.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#193

Post by crististm »

beeboop wrote: post #130
colinmhayes wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, capitalism is awful, but it's by far the best idea we've got.

Please, go on and continue the propaganda about how socialism and communism doesn't work. Please point to failed nations/states that had communism and explain how they failed due to communism and that it definitely wasn't anything else.

Yes, they work alright, that is, until they turn into totalitarianism.

Which they did, everywhere they were implemented.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#194

Post by mattacular »

filoeleven wrote: post #172
mattacular wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was and all of the replies so far are assuming UBI would cover all basic necessities in the long term in every part of the country. Many people with above avg income TODAY struggle with medical bills and even housing. So I'm not sure I buy the argument that a UBI would be able to cover them unless many other things change first.

Hence the need to strengthens social safety nets too. Universal health care removes the medical costs problem for individuals (I’m not weighing in on its societal cost here except to say that other countries manage it). A UBI should cover the cost of housing and food, though it does not guarantee that you can live in a highly-sought after area without other income. That must be factored into employee compensation in…

Ok thanks for your response. I do agree that a UBI could go a lot further if it was implemented alongside universal healthcare and those two things together would significantly increase your bargaining position as a worker.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#195

Post by kmlx »

nraynaud wrote: post #88
anoxor wrote: post #16

Having been a part of a union I was mandated to enter when I took the job until the supreme court ruled that wasn't legal, actual unions are a far cry from how they are portrayed as helping the worker. I would honestly do anything in my power to not have to work in a union again. They are set up as antagonistic between administration and workers, and adds a layer of bureaucracy that I've only seen be negative. I've w…

I live in France, being a union member here is incredibly dull, all day long people come with their employment contract, and you pore over the labor code and the various unions contracts to check the legality of various allegations. at the top level the workers unions manage the unemployment insurance with the employers unions, and talk to the government before labor laws are changed.

a lot of useless bureaucracy that culminates in yearly standstills via strikes. no wonder unions in France are slowly losing members:

> A survey published by France’s human rights defender, an independent administrative authority, revealed that a “fear of reprisal” was cited as the most common reason for employees’ low-engagement in trade unions.

A large majority of those surveyed said their trade union activities had a negative impact for their professional growth and said they felt discriminated against by their employers.

The survey highlighted the main causes for the decrease of trade union membership in France since the 1950's, which is now one of the lowest rates of unionised employees in the European

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#196

Post by cmrdporcupine »

umvi wrote: post #142
csb6 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe recently, with many American unions struggling just to survive, but historically (in the late 1800s to middle 1900s) American unions have been incredibly effective and pioneering.

> but historically (in the late 1800s to middle 1900s) American unions have been incredibly effective So basically unions were good for ~50 years until the Mafia infiltrated the Teamsters?

Unions in the western world in the post-war period made historical compromises with industry that helped contribute to 30-40 years of relative labour peace and high middle class prosperity. They purged communists and other radicals from their ranks, took anti-Soviet positions, and adopted cooperative and conciliatory bargaining positions that gained higher pay and job security by dropping some of the more classic demands of shopfloor control and political change.

As a result unions started to look more like guilds than classic unions, they became managerial organizations like the businesses they were attached to, and they often lost legitimacy with their own memberships as a result.

When the economy started to contract in the 70s they weren't in a good position to fight, and their influence waned. And when the Soviet Union collapsed in the late 80s they lost any kind of bargaining position -- nobody was afraid of the reds anymore, so they didn't need the unions or social democrats or Keynesian liberals to pacify the population and stomp out communist sympathy.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#197

Post by PragmaticPulp »

cactus2093 wrote: post #190
csb6 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s partially self-interest, true, but speaking for Americans, there really is no widespread, institutional education on what labor unions are or do, and what benefits they can bring. Most people simply don’t think about them or believe whatever their employers’ PSAs tell them to believe because no one else ever talks about labor organizing to them.

You're talking about union education as if it's equivalent to mathematics or something, like there is an absolute truth to be learned. Surely even the most pro-union people would acknowledge that not every implementation of a union is equivalent? And that some have caused harm? I would say I'm union agnostic, I'm not against them but I have about the same amount of faith that a union will improve things in a given si…

The government isn’t a good comparison. Unions hold no illusions about acting in the interests of the general public. Their express purpose is to protect the members of the union, even if that comes at the expense of the general public.

Police unions defending corrupt police and ensuring they can collect expensive public-funded pensions after blatant misconduct against the public is a prime example.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#199

Post by mikestew »

heavyset_go wrote: post #160
sacks2k wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core of a union is bad for workers that excel You won't get paid what you are worth and will get held back when you want a raise. In almost all unions that I've encountered, if you want a raise, it's as a collective. They also prevent technological advances and it only makes things more expensive for the consumer (Who do you think is fighting Uber and Lyft in major cities? Taxicab unions that were fleecing custom…

> The core of a union is bad for workers that excel SAG-AFTRA represents both movie stars and B-list actors you've only ever seen in infomercials. > Unions are great for low-performing workers that get guaranteed raises and can't be fired for complete and utter incompetence. SAG-AFTRA represents every American movie star, the same movie stars that can command multi-million dollar contracts with their own terms with t…

Ironically enough, Mr. Union Buster himself [0] was SAG's president for seven terms.

[0] https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/reagan-fires-113...

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#200

Post by refurb »

pydry wrote: post #105
chrisseaton wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know of anyone who disputes the killing of Wilkie happened or claims that it was somehow exaggerated. As a taxi driver he was also not a police officer or an agent of the state. He was not armed or causing violence to anyone. He was just driving someone who didn't agree with the union to work. So they killed him.

They dropped a concrete block on his car. It wasn't attempted murder it was attempted property damage. So, yes, they killed him and were rightly imprisoned for manslaughter.

“Mostly peaceful” would be a good description?
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