New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads • Hacker News Board

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#191

Post by kaibee » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:08 PM UTC

Fernicia wrote: post #167

pythux wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would probably always pick non-personalized, as my assumption is that the less relevant they are, the easiest it would become for me to ignore them (assuming they are not more intrusive than the personalized ones).

This isn't a scalable solution. If the value per ad decreases, services will need to display more til the user generates enough value to support the costs they incur. If TV was able to cater ads to individual viewers then ad breaks would be a lot shorter.

> If TV was able to cater ads to individual viewers then ad breaks would be a lot shorter.

Or they could sell the same amount of ads as they do now for higher prices. Which one do you think the company would pick?

The length of ad breaks is determined by what 'price' the customer is willing to pay in terms of their time.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#192

Post by nerdjon » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:09 PM UTC

chadlavi wrote: post #188

nerdjon wrote: post #143

This is the number one feature on iOS 14 that I cannot wait for. I am getting very tired of finding out that unrelated services know that I have used a specific app (like Facebook knows way too much). Somewhat related (even though this is focused on Apps). I have noticed an uptick in websites that don't support safari, likely due to how they handle cookies. I hope this does not become super common (but I can't imagin…

I'm on the dev beta, and it's pretty stable. There's a public beta available now. If you're itching to try it out, I'd recommend it!

I have heard that, my biggest concern is if there was a nasty iCloud bug introduced.

I would run the risk of loosing a lot of important documents in my iCloud Drive.

Maybe I will install it on my work iPhone but that is barely used right now.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#193

Post by artificial » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:10 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #160

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

Personalized ads is a way to trick you into buying something which you had not necessarily planned to buy, i.e. psychological manipulation. The more they know about you, the better they can manipulate you into buying their product (whether you actually need it or not). I don't understand how anyone would agree on that.

I'm not fond of the current display of ads on websites and I block them mercilessly. If I'm looking for shoes, I'm shown more shoes in ads (this is my reality right now.) How is that trickery? Unless you're considering any advertisement manipulation. The part where the current model falls down is it doesn't stop (since there's no means to really show that one isn't interested) and a big ticket item like a toilet becomes your inaugural purchase in your new toilet buying hobby. The tech works by identifying users into audiences and marketers use this to allocate campaigns and budget to. Typically this doesn't include a lot of personal demographic information (FB & Google). Filling out a card with interests and opting in would be the best way to do this, something like rough location, age bracket (18-25, 26-34 etc.), income bracket, types of product interests maybe including a few categories of items (designer pants, tech backpack, industrial hardcore music, pizza delivery) recently purchased in a rotating queue.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#194

Post by elliekelly » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:11 PM UTC

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

Why would I prefer to buy from the salesperson who stalks me first?

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#195

Post by jka » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

Given a choice and assuming that ads stick around, I'd prefer to pull relevant personalized advertising when I want to see it.

In other words, allow advertisers to put all their personalized / targeted ads into a common ecosystem, but allow me to dip into that when I'm looking for some specific purchase.

That would mean that advertisers wouldn't have tracking on almost every website and inside almost every smartphone app, gathering information, taking up screen real estate, and consuming valuable bandwidth and user attention.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#196

Post by elliekelly » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

esrauch wrote: post #144

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

How would you imagine "tell them what you're in the market for" would work? I don't think it would work at scale; almost no user would take time to make a manually personalized ad profile instead of ... not doing that.

Why would it be any different from the way advertising worked before Facebook and Google?

Vogue subscribers are probably in the market for new designer clothes. People who watch Cesar Milan are probably in the market for pet supplies. Someone driving down a highway is probably in the market for gas and a snack. Someone who searches for “affordable laptop” is probably in the market to buy a new computer.

You don’t need to track someone’s every move to serve them relevant ads.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#197

Post by artificial » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #146

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

I would choose personalized ads if ad companies would personally allow me the choice to select some predetermined categories of ads. Personalized ads created by siphoning data off everything I do not so much. Put it this way, to use an example, what kind of relationship would you prefer, someone who knows all the things about you because they asked or someone that comes up to you and is like 'yeah, I know you like th…

This could be great to include on device, the ad profile that's editable there so you're in control and when an affiliated ad network is encountered on a site/platform and with user granted access. A manipulated/curated queue of interests may be shared so recent purchases can be listed to better show relevant ads. Like what if you shared you're looking for phones, or you just bought something so do or don't show more of that?

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#198

Post by prox » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

dividedbyzero wrote: post #153

prox wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also don’t believe in Ad-tech doom and gloom. Yes, ad companies won’t be hoarding as much data, but advertisement worked fine before it started to do it. Back to basics it is, treat me well as a customer, deliver as promised and use ads responsibly (aka no more hyper targetting)

For me, the term ad-tech has become synonymous with the modern-day scummy data hoarders and surveillance corporations, maybe that's the same for others? It could make for a lot of misunderstandings. I guess most people would agree that advertisement in general can fulfill an important function, if done responsibly – but not like that. These tracking excesses really must die.

Not only that, but we are (were?) in a race to the bottom, ever declining return on ads, so more ads must be delivered, more tracking must be done, creating more friction (ad-overload) I too believe ads can function responsibly, ads have run in newspapers for a century, so a equilibrium can exist.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#199

Post by whoopdedo » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

kin wrote: post #141

I have a serious question. Obviously if one were to choose between an ad-free experience and an ad-full experience, one would choose ad-free. But, if ads were needed for monetization, wouldn't you choose personalized vs non-personalized? Personally, I would go with personalized because a non-personalized experienced usually has no relevancy and frankly it is inefficient use of money in this world. From there, it real…

> Why can't there be a way for me to tell the ad-world what I'm in the market for

Because there's no money in that. What's the value in selling you something that you've already decided you want to buy? Advertisers are trying to get into your head and manipulate your perception to make you open your wallet where you otherwise wouldn't have. And when you do decide to purchase a product, that it's the advertiser's brand which you think of first.

Re: New iOS privacy feature may end an era of personalized ads

#200

Post by mrweasel » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

While I believe Apple making the right choice, perhaps they could also find a way to help app developers make money, without ads.

Perhaps one of the reasons developer include ads and tracking is that recurring revenue is a problem for small developments shops.