The TikTok War • Hacker News Board

Re: The TikTok War

#191

Post by sixo » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

hugh4life wrote: post #96

kpennell wrote: post #11

I'm not sure how I got sucked into Tiktok but I was quickly hooked. There's something so refreshingly playful, authentic, and raw about so much Tiktok content compared to Instagram. Instagram (explore/discovery) is generally pretty people with pretty things in pretty places. That was fun for a while but it's just not that interesting after a while. I don't need to see more pretty pictures of women doing yoga. I don't…

"I'm not sure how I got sucked into Tiktok but I was quickly hooked." All these apps use behavioral design to get you hooked. Tiktok is oversocialization on steroids. You have people not only acting out the behavioral scripts embedded and triggered in some meme music or voice you have people mimetically acting out what others are acting out. The psychological manipulation possible though TikTok is immense.

You can phrase it cynically, but that stuff isn't inherently bad. Or at least, it's not worse than anything else people aimlessly browse on the internet. Mostly, it's just fun.

Re: The TikTok War

#192

Post by glaive123 » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #103

actuator wrote: post #12

Ben is absolutely right and something needs to be done to fight for the values of liberalism, democracy etc we hold dear but I don't see how this will happen. The world seems more divided than ever. Just 2-3 countries unilaterally acting on these issues isn't going to make a difference, how I wish there were strong leaders in some of the nations who knew how to work well for those ideals in the long term together wit…

Everyone forgets that Tiktok bought Musical.ly which was an American product to get the market traction they have. The issue that seems more real than political speech is that US social media / internet companies are denied access to the Chinese market while we allow Chinese owned companies complete access to the US market. Seems like that is unjust.

Musical.ly is not an American product. Just because it was incorporated in US does not mean the team and co-founders are from US.

Re: The TikTok War

#193

Post by narrator » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #188

This piece is ridiculous. Mainly: > What matters more in an ideological war, though, is influence, and that is why I do believe that ByteDance’s continued ownership of TikTok is unacceptable. What's implied but unsaid here is that somehow the CCP is going to fill TikTok with political propaganda that... a bunch of teens are going to somehow become influenced by? Sorry, but that's just completely far-fetched. Facebook…

TikTok users flooded the Trump rally with fake ticket requests.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/21/tiktok-campaigns-ensure-hundre...

The plausible deniability is easy. No one will ever find out if it was specially promoted. They could just throw up their hands and say that it all happened all by itself. The algorithm is a mystery and a trade secret!

U.S Teens are making "I Love China" videos on TikTok.

https://www.recruitmentnewsuk.co.uk/2020/05/28/why-us-teens-...

The algorithm could interfere to remove any pro-Trump or anti-China TikToks and noone would be the wiser. There is zero transparency.

The Chinese government can lend these institutions billions forever and undercut rivals and overpay programmers if it buys them political influence.

Speaking of a free market in ideas. 90% of the U.S media is owned by 5 companies. I think a good idea would be to reverse the Telecommunications Act of 1996 which allowed for massive TV and Radio consolidation. Local radio was actually good in the late 80s and early 90s and new music styles were discovered and promoted by disk jockeys on local stations. After 96, the conglomerates bought up all the radio stations and IMHO, popular music more or less froze in place with just the names of the bands rotating.

Re: The TikTok War

#194

Post by chvid » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #178

chvid wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just might. Seriously. Social media for techies - what will that look like in ten years? Like HN? Or more like TikTok ...

VR headset and enriched reality....with a sexy manga girl in the right upper corner.

To give you guys a glimpse of the future - here is #coding and #startup on TikTok:

https://www.tiktok.com/tag/coding

https://www.tiktok.com/tag/startup

Re: The TikTok War

#195

Post by netcan » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #38

azatris wrote: post #6

I absolutely love using TikTok, but would give it up in a heartbeat for a Western replacement. It has absolutely brought more positivity into my life. I am specifically feeding the algorithm with this intent and I get what I asked for. It is a psychological tool.

> give it up in a heartbeat for a Western replacement. It's important to recognized that it's not a coincidence that TikTok exists and is run by a Chinese company. In the West that replacement would have been immediately purchased by FB or Twitter and then summarily destroyed. This is literally what happened to the closest Western equivalent: Vine. The Chinese government has many faults, but unlike the US government,…

I agree with you.

Besides "FB would have bought it," social media doesn't generally do "replacement." Nuanced differences in product lead to different products, because the "social" aspect is made of culture.

Any replacement for tiktok wouldn't be a replacement. It'd be a different product in the social media space. One way or another, a tiktok ban benefits FB, whether they build a competitor, buy it, or their existing products pick up tiktok's market share.

We are totally ill equipped to deal with modern monopolies. We weren't great at dealing with the old, monopolies. Now though, the laws, norms and political MOs are nearly irrelevant.

One trite example is prices. The default way to "prove" the effect of monopolies historically has been price. Prices don't exist in social media.

A deeper difference is the microeconomics. When Bell was being broken up, one big problem was creating viable component companies. If the courts screwed up and created failing child companies then telecommunications would be broken. This is a hard problem for a court, well outside their comfort zone. With social media the microeconomics is totally different. Even if FB disappeared, consumers would not lack for social media. The market is capable of replacing FB easily, all that's needed is for facebook to move aside. Commercial/profitability considerations are barely an issue.

Re: The TikTok War

#196

Post by nix23 » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #159

nix23 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Hacker News all look seriously dated in comparison Yes please make a movie about your next it projekt ;) I even hate repair-videos on youtube, it's slow and lame, the fix-it manuals are 1000s times better (since i know what a torx is and that most screws open counter-clock-wise)

If there's something that I really really like YouTube for, it would be the videos showing you how to fix or build things. Good woodworking, metalworking, electronics repair videos are hard to find, but I remember seeing a few that were much better than a manual. The manual typically shows one view of a project or workpiece, but good videos show multiple views, close ups, pictures of different configurations I might…

I like stuff like Townsends (cooking and build stuff in the old days) but repair stuff big NO for me, but learn howto solder big YES. It really depends.

Re: The TikTok War

#197

Post by chvid » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:35 PM UTC

sharadov wrote: post #182

analyte123 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something about Tiktok, whether the algorithm or the sheer volume of content, seems to discourage the sort of look-at-me envy-bait narcissistic posturing that is so common on Instagram. To be popular on Tiktok you actually have to do stuff (even it's fairly banal like dancing or telling stories), not just be (or pretend to be) someone. I found it funny that the author of this post is trying to defend liberal values l…

My naive question is how is Tiktok bad and all other American social media platforms - FB/Insta/Snap good?

It is bad because it is Chinese.

Re: The TikTok War

#198

Post by nix23 » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:36 PM UTC

chvid wrote: post #194

nix23 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR headset and enriched reality....with a sexy manga girl in the right upper corner.

To give you guys a glimpse of the future - here is #coding and #startup on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/tag/coding https://www.tiktok.com/tag/startup

To give you a glimpse of reality:

https://ayende.com/blog/Images/Windows-Live-Writer/Pair-Prog...

EDIT: Wow i clicked on #Coding and it is like i taught about it...pure waste of time with Rainbowhairs and talking needle slim guy's with more grease on top than the hole movie 'Grease'

Re: The TikTok War

#199

Post by tguedes » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

sharadov wrote: post #182

analyte123 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something about Tiktok, whether the algorithm or the sheer volume of content, seems to discourage the sort of look-at-me envy-bait narcissistic posturing that is so common on Instagram. To be popular on Tiktok you actually have to do stuff (even it's fairly banal like dancing or telling stories), not just be (or pretend to be) someone. I found it funny that the author of this post is trying to defend liberal values l…

My naive question is how is Tiktok bad and all other American social media platforms - FB/Insta/Snap good?

Did you read the article?

Re: The TikTok War

#200

Post by chucksmash » Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

saityi wrote: post #142

bstar77 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to understand the allure. Are you not also absorbed by your phone in other ways? What wrong with people smiling, laughing and dancing? I'm an old parent trying to be open minded as well.

>Are you not also absorbed by your phone in other ways? Honestly, no, and I feel very disconnected from modern culture as a result. I use my phone like a hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy: to have access to everything we know as humans at my fingertips, in my pockets, at all times. Otherwise, I don't use it. That said, I have nothing against people using their phone for enjoyment, and there's nothing wrong with people…

I'm a fan of the "Digital Wellbeing" features that ship with newer phones.

I have a social media account which I check approximately biweekly and definitely considered myself someone who wasn't falling into the attention trap in my pocket. I only read HN, a few news sites, send texts, and play chess on my phone.

I was amazed to see just how much time I spent doing these things. Even if in some way how I'm using the phone is more virtuous or less problematic ("this hour-long article about the architecture of the classic XBox gratifies my curiosity, is informative and gives me more context with which to understand my field!"), that time and attention sink still comes at the cost of everything else in life.