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Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

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Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#191

Post by tmaly »

gwern wrote: post #181
tmaly wrote: post #120

I have a 6 year old daughter who has been taking lessons with the 3rd graders this past year. I just had a conference with her teachers and they are ok to jump her a grade. They thought two grades would have been too much socially. But they did agree to give her advanced lessons. She is in a Montessori where grades 1-3 are together. I really believe all children have the potential for genius. Its all in how they are…

The Pygmalion effect is complete rubbish. If you look into it, you see that the original study was p-hacked garbage which relied on impossible gains like individual students gaining literally hundreds of IQ points (yes, really, they reported this with a straight face and built an entire literature on it, which immediately showed massive decline effects so now the meta-analyses argue over whether the actual effect, wh…

I did not mention it to imply it would lead to a bump in IQ points. I believe the psychological effect is the most important/dangerous aspect of it.

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#192

Post by beaner »

mturmon wrote: post #185
beaner wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll read yours if you read mine! I think Charter Schools and their Enemies may contain some stuff on CA schools but I haven't gotten that far yet. It starts out talking about NYC schools. It literally contains tables of data. I know that neither of us can come to a well-rounded conclusion without putting in a good faith effort to listen to arguments from both sides. It would be nice to be able to come back after doi…

Like I said, I have already studied this question to my satisfaction. Also, in general, I have lost patience with much good-faith argument regarding neoconservative initiatives. In retrospect, I think most of the money and power behind the charter schools initiative became focused on dismantling public schools, and (like Diane Ravitch) I regret ever arguing for the benefits of charters.

That's a bummer. You mentioned California specifically and one of the things discussed in the book is how charter schools in California specifically were neutered in important ways to basically remove their advantages; to remove what allowed charter schools to perform better anyway; to make them indistinguishable and therefore pointless. So it's no surprise any review of the performance of these specific schools would not be compelling.

But deeper than that I think you've adopted an awfully defeatist and close-minded opinion. You don't have to keep yourself updated or read new things, but you must also then admit that your understanding is not sufficient, and that your opinion may be uneducated. No matter how much you read of any topic, there is always more to learn and new perspectives to be shared. Especially with such a new, live topic.

I don't mean this meanly but it's certainly your loss. I hope you come around to open-mindedness again someday!

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#193

Post by sverona »

gwern wrote: post #182
sverona wrote: post #64

Disclaimer: it's late and I don't feel like SciHubbing it so I haven't read past the abstract. My N=1 opinion is that being "highly gifted" may not cause social and emotional trauma, but it can certainly complicate unrelated trauma. I skipped so many grades when I was a kid that they started holding me back so I wouldn't get too "out of sync" (I did junior high twice.) I got along socially with relatively little bull…

Fulltext: https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/smpy/2020-bernstein.pdf I keep a fulltext bibliography of SMPY-related papers at https://www.gwern.net/SMPY - this is just one of many papers establishing that various kinds of enrichment and acceleration are just fine, do no emotional damage, and do save a lot of their life from formal schooling, which has been a major premise of SMPY since Stanley founded it in the 1960s.

Yeah, I'm agreed. My point, I suppose, is that the best "acceleration" available to me involved a good deal of emotional neglect and a pinch of actual abuse.

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#194

Post by [deleted] »

beaner wrote: post #192
mturmon wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, I have already studied this question to my satisfaction. Also, in general, I have lost patience with much good-faith argument regarding neoconservative initiatives. In retrospect, I think most of the money and power behind the charter schools initiative became focused on dismantling public schools, and (like Diane Ravitch) I regret ever arguing for the benefits of charters.

That's a bummer. You mentioned California specifically and one of the things discussed in the book is how charter schools in California specifically were neutered in important ways to basically remove their advantages; to remove what allowed charter schools to perform better anyway; to make them indistinguishable and therefore pointless. So it's no surprise any review of the performance of these specific schools woul…

[deleted]

Re: Academic acceleration in gifted youth: a 35-year longitudinal study

#195

Post by mturmon »

beaner wrote: post #192
mturmon wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, I have already studied this question to my satisfaction. Also, in general, I have lost patience with much good-faith argument regarding neoconservative initiatives. In retrospect, I think most of the money and power behind the charter schools initiative became focused on dismantling public schools, and (like Diane Ravitch) I regret ever arguing for the benefits of charters.

That's a bummer. You mentioned California specifically and one of the things discussed in the book is how charter schools in California specifically were neutered in important ways to basically remove their advantages; to remove what allowed charter schools to perform better anyway; to make them indistinguishable and therefore pointless. So it's no surprise any review of the performance of these specific schools woul…

I reject the contrived pity, and note that you haven't been paying attention to what I've written: I read a lot on this topic - as the links indicate.
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