University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs • Hacker News Board

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#191

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 6:44 AM UTC

BeetleB wrote: post #167

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you can't do the middle-class job because you can't write, the piece of paper will only get you so far. It may get you an entry-level job, but you probably won't get much in the way of promotions. So even from that perspective, plagiarism isn't helpful.

> But if you can't do the middle-class job because you can't write, the piece of paper will only get you so far. It may get you an entry-level job, but you probably won't get much in the way of promotions. So even from that perspective, plagiarism isn't helpful. Where do these mythical jobs exist where being able to write well is a requirement for career growth? Certainly not at engineering companies. I wish what you…

I can only believe you are trolling.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#192

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 6:47 AM UTC

andykx wrote: post #160

StupidPeople wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plagiarizing some work doesn't really hurt the work, it hurts you Except learning isn't really the reason most go. It's to get a well paid job at the end of it.

I returned to college after 10 years in the insurance industry. I’ve always viewed programming as a hobby, but decided to take the leap and pursue a career that I might actually enjoy. Anyway, I notice a lot of younger students have this attitude and it frankly causes them to produce really crappy work. As long as they pass the class, they don’t really care to absorb the material. I can’t help but wonder what kind of…

> I listen to every word the professors say as if they’re telling me the secret to eternal life while half the class is dozing off.

This is absolutely brilliant.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#193

Post by BeetleB » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 6:48 AM UTC

nopinsight wrote: post #184

BeetleB wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you can't do the middle-class job because you can't write, the piece of paper will only get you so far. It may get you an entry-level job, but you probably won't get much in the way of promotions. So even from that perspective, plagiarism isn't helpful. Where do these mythical jobs exist where being able to write well is a requirement for career growth? Certainly not at engineering companies. I wish what you…

Which field(s) of engineering do you talk about? What are the highest level(s) of promotion the persons who don't write well reach and continue to work in? I would think that writing well is at least a requirement for promotion into a technical leadership role (above senior individual contributors). By writing well, I don't mean in the style of journalists or novelists. Rather, writing clearly and concisely to effect…

> Which field(s) of engineering do you talk about? What are the highest level(s) of promotion the persons who don't write well reach and continue to work in?

Electrical, computer, and SW.

I'm not saying communicating well is not needed. I'm saying writing well is not needed. What I've seen: A good presentation (including PPT skills) is much more valued than writing. Decisions are usually made because of them, not because someone wrote a good brief outlining positives/negatives. Emails longer than a few lines tend not to be read, so people don't focus on it. Documents are usually not read by many except those beneath them, etc. I almost never see a senior management write anything of substance unless it is required by Legal/HR - they'll always get an underling to write them (and no, writing them is not how underlings become senior management).

I'm not saying I like the state of affairs, but it is how I've seen it.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#194

Post by uopeoplestudent » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 6:49 AM UTC

BeetleB wrote: post #170

zerof1l wrote: post #53

I've graduated from this university with a bachelor's in Computer Science last year. Overall I had a good experience. I found the curriculum to be on a weaker side. I was interested in various things about computers when I was young, so it felt like I knew half of the material. While studying, I was working at the company part-time. At the normal study pace, you should be ready to put up to 30 hours per week when tak…

> At the normal study pace, you should be ready to put up to 30 hours per week when taking 2 courses. In reality, it took me half of that time. Usually 10 hours per week. 30 hours per week for just 2 courses? Are these courses covering more than a typical university? In my undergrad, I took a minimum of 5 courses per semester (16-20 credits). Scaling from your expectations, that would be 60-80 hours per week? I doubt…

The school uses terms (5 per year) rather than semesters, so each course is 8 weeks (plus 4 days for finals) rather than the usual 15 weeks plus finals week.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#195

Post by jimmaswell » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 6:50 AM UTC

nopinsight wrote: post #184

BeetleB wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you can't do the middle-class job because you can't write, the piece of paper will only get you so far. It may get you an entry-level job, but you probably won't get much in the way of promotions. So even from that perspective, plagiarism isn't helpful. Where do these mythical jobs exist where being able to write well is a requirement for career growth? Certainly not at engineering companies. I wish what you…

Which field(s) of engineering do you talk about? What are the highest level(s) of promotion the persons who don't write well reach and continue to work in? I would think that writing well is at least a requirement for promotion into a technical leadership role (above senior individual contributors). By writing well, I don't mean in the style of journalists or novelists. Rather, writing clearly and concisely to effect…

I've gotten lots of emails from bosses and bosses' bosses like "i semt the file,pls confirm." Few seem to care about writing well in the workplace. With psychological things like how talking like someone makes them like you more, I wouldn't be surprised if "proper" writing was a hinderance to career advancement in such a scenario.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#196

Post by uopeoplestudent » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 6:55 AM UTC

mkbkn wrote: post #183

uopeoplestudent wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. In fact, I believe most of the students are international students. In my last course, I had students from Nigeria, Italy, Germany, the US, Vietnam, and China.

Tell me how many are from India?

No idea. I don't recall anyone from my classes who has specifically mentioned being from India. I did a quick search on the internal social network, and there's quite a few students who mention being from various parts though. So, "some" is the best answer I can offer.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#197

Post by BeetleB » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 6:55 AM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #186

BeetleB wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you can't do the middle-class job because you can't write, the piece of paper will only get you so far. It may get you an entry-level job, but you probably won't get much in the way of promotions. So even from that perspective, plagiarism isn't helpful. Where do these mythical jobs exist where being able to write well is a requirement for career growth? Certainly not at engineering companies. I wish what you…

Writing and communication skills are absolutely necessary for career growth. The power of persuasion is directly linked to the ability to communicate your ideas well.

> Writing and communication skills are absolutely necessary for career growth. The power of persuasion is directly linked to the ability to communicate your ideas well.

I've updated my original comment to reflect that I was referring to writing and not general communications in general (although I wrote it more broadly).

I've seen people really value presentation skills and PPT. Persuasion on 1:1 and via presentations is definitely valued.

But via writing? No. They're atrocious when writing emails. And they rarely write docs/briefs. If they do the latter, it's really meant to be a teaser to get someone interested, and then that person will go talk 1:1 to get the details or ask for a presentation.

My experience at work: Writing anything longer than 1-2 pages is a good way to ensure no one will read it. And again, if I have a good enough "lead", what will happen is the senior person will read the lead, stop reading, and schedule something to talk to me in person so he can understand in detail. At some level, I understand why he would do that - it can be an interactive conversation where he can interrupt, ask for clarification, etc. Whereas if he read the thing, he would have to write up a response, or even worse, make notes to ask me the next time he sees me.

I almost never get anything as well written as a typical HN comment. Even (internal) documentation/manuals/Wikis are poorly written.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#198

Post by BossingAround » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 6:57 AM UTC

I'm taking this Uni in my free time. I am a full-time at a large IT company, and when I started, I had too much free time. I thought, I don't have a degree, I learned everything myself, let's see what the rigorous side of CS is.

Well, UoPeople is both good and bad, as everything in life.

On the bad side, some teachers are not only useless, but actively making your experience worse. This is mostly cultural, but teachers coming from Africa and some Asian countries really make you want to stick to the tiniest details of rules and assignments.

For example, if you have to write a learning journal (and you will), and the example of an LJ contains entries starting with date such as "DD/MM/YYYY HH:MM", African and some Asian teachers will ask you to correct it from any other format. I found this infuriating. What's more, when I had questions, most often, I got no help from these teachers. Some teachers would be amazing, most teachers would give me a non-helpful question, some would ignore my question outright.

I also feel like there's a ton of hoops you have to jump through. An associate CS degree consists of a number of health/philosophy/econ classes that I have zero interest in. This is, again, cultural, as UoP is highly US-centric. If you're coming from other country, you'll realize how many assumptions you had (and how silly the UoP/US system can be).

On the good side, however, I do feel like I'm learning a lot. If you really spend time in reading the materials, I have found the exercises in courses quite useful. I'm 100% sure it's not as rigorous as a brick-and-mortar university, no. They will let pass students who have learnt nothing as long as they put in work.

But, if you want, you can surprisingly learn a lot. Even after being a number of years in IT (engineering and now architecture), I found something new (especially their Database and other specialized courses are quite good). I haven't done math since high school (my brick-and-mortar degree was not in CS) and some of the math courses were really kicking my ass, which is great.

It's also insanely flexible in that it's online. You decide when to do stuff. You decide when to read. There's only deadlines for every week. Other than that, it's up to you.

Overall, I think my experience with UoP is quite good, but it takes a very specific mindset. If you're from a poor non-US and non-EU country, I'd say UoP is great for you (provided you can pay for it, since it's still not free). If you're from US or any EU country, UoP degree will have almost zero value in terms of having a degree, but might provide you with a lot of new knowledge. If you're in for the knowledge, I'd say it's nice. If you're in for the degree, I'd say go for Georgia's Tech OMSCS.

Feel free to ask any questions if you'd like. I'll be checking replies to this post for a day or two.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#199

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 7:03 AM UTC

cguess wrote: post #103

eikenberry wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't restricted to untraditional schools. At least one of our local state universities have stopped accepting credits from the community colleges due to the practice of transferring for the final couple years. Might be something similar going on here. It might be that they want the degree to represent the full 4 year experience at the school or it might just be the money. The cynic in me prefers the latter.

A degree says something about the student. I completely understand why universities would not want to accept credits from school below their own qualification level. If they confer a degree to a student that student is representing the university's education quality to everyone that hires them or works with them. Spending three years at a community college and expecting the credits to transfer to a major university m…

Your example (3 years) is extreme. I could not get 15 CS credits to transfer from one private, 2nd tier US college to another (Boston university). BU refused and i took the classes again and paid for them twice. It put me in the rare position of being able to compare the quality of education at the two institutions side by side.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#200

Post by elil17 » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 7:07 AM UTC

uopeoplestudent wrote: post #106

elil17 wrote: post #90

Reading the comments in this thread, it seems like there is a real need for a version of this that focuses on being more rigorous and achieving regional accreditation.

I wish the school were more rigorous, but they are working towards regional accreditation. It takes time, unfortunately (or fortunately?).

I want to clarify, I’m not at all saying that UoP isn’t rigorous enough for what it is. While it may look like a cake walk to some HN readers, I’d guess that the curriculum poses a significant challenge and a real opportunity to learn for most people.

If this is the low cost, online version of a average public university, I think there should also be a low cost, online version of a “top-tier” school.