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Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

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Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#191

Post by m463 »

jedieaston wrote: post #170
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter that it's a snap? Does the program work?

The really annoying thing about snaps is that they pollute the mountpoints on the system. I’ve had as many as 100 mounts on a box after installing just a few snaps, which is super annoying if you ever want to try to get an idea of disk usage. God forbid you want to figure out what lvm volume can get shrinked. There’s also not as much screening before an update is allowed, as there would be for the default Ubuntu repo…

I wish there was a "df" had a flag for just "real filesystems" (maybe there is and I don't know it).

sort of like df -t ext4 -t ext3 -t vfat ...

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#192

Post by kjs3 »

bouncycastle wrote: post #69

From reading the other comments, people just don't like having security updates done automatically - they'd like to have more control when they are performed. Kind of like in Windows, where your computer suddenly shuts down to apply a service pack while you were in the middle of an important World of Warcraft raid that you were planning for weeks. There's always a trade-off between keeping your system secure and bein…

Unless you're on a corporate machine where they have some Group Policy to force updates, you absolutely can control when updates are performed. You might have to actually learn how to do that, but it's not like M$ makes it impossible.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#193

Post by m463 »

commoner wrote: post #84
lame-robot-hoax wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of Snap, but Flatpak seems to be a much better implementation.

Absolutely. The server-side implementation of Snap is closed source and the Snap Store is a single instance controlled solely by Canonical. Flatpak repositories are decentralized and can be hosted on private servers with flat-manager, which is FOSS: https://github.com/flatpak/flat-manager

Right - it's a control/monetization strategy.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#194

Post by tomjupiter »

simosx wrote: post #162
fxtentacle wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general, but my work involves website automaton, meaning the now empty chromium package. Plus I want my workstation to be as similar as possible to the deployment container to make debugging easier. So if I feel uncomfortable using Ubuntu 20 for my workstation, I should probably switch my deployment docker base image, too.

Have a look at LXD. It creates system containers that are based on runtimes of most Linux distributions. You can stick to specific versions and are certain that those do not change.

Ironically, LXD is a snap package in Ubuntu[0]

[0] https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/lxd

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#195

Post by simosx »

jnurmine wrote: post #97
simosx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snap support is evolving. There are keys to configure when, and if, you get updates, https://snapcraft.io/docs/keeping-snaps-up-to-date The total Linux desktop installation base is around 2.7%. Without automation, the Linux desktop does not look like it will attract any significant number of Windows users.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but one cannot hold off updating the snaps indefinitely. Thus there is no "if". One gets a maximum of 60 days, that is all. Through a snap proxy it's possible to hold off longer, but then the proxy needs to talk with the snap store periodically. Why people are upset is, I believe, that Canonical forces people to accept any and all changes to the installed software, without being able t…

Lenovo cited NetMarketShare for the stats on the desktop Linux, https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/lenovo-brin...

You can "snap download" and "snap install" to bypass any updates.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#196

Post by dahfizz »

michaelmrose wrote: post #113
__s wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with either of Fedora or Debian?

Centos is too slow moving to be suitable for desktop use. Fedora updates to a new version every 6 months. Updates in place have historically been less than awesome and it adopts new tech before it is ready with no practical way to run either the old version of fedora or the old version of the software. Example rolling out pulseaudio when it didn't work well. One version I recall went from acceptable font rendering to…

I've had the same Fedora install on my laptop for years, at least 4 versions. Never any of the problems you described.

Fedora was also the only thing that worked on my new laptop, because every other distro runs a super old kernel. I'm a super happy Fedora user :)

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#197

Post by rlpb »

Skunkleton wrote: post #7

I personally don't packaging apps in a sandbox, its a violation of the basic idea of writing tools that do one thing well. Still, snap gets lots of flack, but I don't see the same for flatpak. Is there some advantage to flatpak that I am missing, or is it just than Ubuntu has pushed snaps too hard?

Every time Canonical comes up with something to improve the state of things, there's a contingent of vocal Canonical opponents who focus on putting their weight behind an alternative. These voices will back the alternative, no matter what, because it's not Canonical.

That's not to say that the alternatives have no merit. They do, because they're driven by developers who do have valid differences of opinion from Canonical's approach and want to do things differently. That's always going to be the case because different people are always going weigh things differently and take different directions on things.

But the rhetoric usually becomes louder than the valid discourse.

Take this headline for example. This is entirely about the politics. The technical merit of the Chromium packaging being a snap doesn't apply - because the alternative would be a deb provided and maintained by a distribution, and Mint aren't doing that. Ubuntu switched to a Chromium snap because maintaining the Chromium deb is no longer practical. Many snap critics will tell you that distribution debs are better for curation and trust reasons. That's not an option here, because Mint is not even providing that as an alternative.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#198

Post by rlpb »

progval wrote: post #60
bad_user wrote: post #39

While I understand the concerns over Snap, you can't blame Canonical for trying, because lets be honest, rpm/deb packages are a mess. I see in the comments a complaint that you don't want the developers upgrading their apps whenever they want ... really? Because that's my number one complaint for debs/rpms too. You can't install specific versions, you can't install multiple versions side by side and installing a newe…

> You trusted the app developers as soon as you installed that app on your computer with full privileges. No, I don't. First, most apps' code won't run as root. Only install scripts, written my distribution's maintainers, run as root (except for core applications, of course). And secondly, I trust app developers to write their app properly (to a certain extent), but not to write install scripts that won't mess with m…

> Only install scripts, written my distribution's maintainers, run as root (except for core applications, of course).

Install Chromium on Linux Mint and you'll have code run as root that is not written by your distribution's maintainers. Because Mint won't ship the snap, and nor are they shipping a deb that they maintain. You'll have to install a third party deb or equivalent.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#199

Post by m463 »

flatfilefan wrote: post #20

Snap for me means Firefox suddenly says “I won’t open a new tab until you update me and I will drop all tabs on restart”. It also means cached content and configs in many new obscure places. It doesn’t mean any visible improvement so far. So hey, kudos Mint and hey, Ubuntu stop that already.

I learned a long time ago to block firefox from contacting mozilla related domains. It does too much unwanted stuff in the background. I update it on my schedule.

Re: Linux Mint Dumps Ubuntu Snap

#200

Post by coronadisaster »

Sevaris wrote: post #49
dathinab wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have linux experience Arch Linux can be a good idea. Sure the daunting setup process would fall into the "a hobby" category but once it runs it tends to just keep running as long as you update it from time to time. Using it now for ~5 Years and in that time I had two times problems one was that the new kernel version didn't work with my laptop and another which was fully my fault by doing some "special" boot s…

Ugh, no. Manjaro is the no-nonsense "I really don't want to waste time troubleshooting my own shit" version of Arch Linux. I stopped using Arch when I found Manjaro and I'm so glad I did. Arch just requires way too much fiddling for it to ever feel "complete" and or finished.

I've had a lot of problems with Manjaro (some hard to fix) and not as much with Arch... maybe only because my main computer is using Manjaro though
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