Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption • Hacker News Board

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#191

Post by fauigerzigerk » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:49 AM UTC

lorenzhs wrote: post #152

jabirali wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the exception of desktop app, I agree :). The desktop app takes several minutes to open (at least on Linux), so I find that the only way to use it is to start it at boot and always leave it open. I'm still hoping that someone may create other clients, e.g. a Pidgin backend. The mobile apps, on the other hand, work really well. Been using them for years now, both on Android and iOS.

When did you last try it? Startup speed of Signal-Desktop has been much improved in recent months, like, by an order of magnitude. Maybe give it another shot.

It opens pretty quickly for me, but almost every time it wants to be re-linked to a mobile device.

Signal is really annoying with all the things it wants me to do. Re-linking a mobile device. Re-entering a PIN/password for no reason other than to prove that I still know the password.

And when I'm finally logged in it shows me a completely useless selection of mostly obsolete contacts.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#192

Post by smichel17 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:49 AM UTC

jwr wrote: post #164

AtHeartEngineer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my default and over a few years I've pretty much converted everyone in my life except my mom

Sadly, Signal neglects user experience, and as a result people around me all tend to migrate to WhatsApp. They don't care that they are uploading their entire contact list to Facebook — "death before inconvenience".

Honestly I don't really understand this. I'm a longtime signal user who installed whatsapp recently (family group I had to join) and.. It feels more or less the same to me. Maybe it's because I haven't allowed any unnecessary permissions, but I don't see much functionality that's different. Statuses maybe?

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#193

Post by ohhnoodont » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:50 AM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #127

Legogris wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lost track of the number of times I've had this conversation but here we go: There's nothing inherent in phone numbers here. Both iOS and Android also allows you to add e-mail addresses (and other identifiers) to your local contacts. I'm yet to hear an argument as to why e-mail addresses or other identifiers can't be used in addition to phone numbers, or why it would be a complicating factor.

My guess would be that phone numbers are guaranteed to be unique IDs that (almost) every phone will have which simplifies things and reduces the risk of someone impersonating someone else. I think they are working on non-phone number IDs though (Moxie was in an earlier signal thread on HN recently and mentioned it).

Phone numbers are also guaranteed to be recycled. Every single whatsapp contact I have that's older than 3 years is no longer the original user. I know this because their profile picture is shown to me for some reason. Phone numbers are an outdated system that have no place in modern communication, especially not privacy software.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#194

Post by fauigerzigerk » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:50 AM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #133

jabirali wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the exception of desktop app, I agree :). The desktop app takes several minutes to open (at least on Linux), so I find that the only way to use it is to start it at boot and always leave it open. I'm still hoping that someone may create other clients, e.g. a Pidgin backend. The mobile apps, on the other hand, work really well. Been using them for years now, both on Android and iOS.

The desktop app situation is pretty similar for all messaging apps. I don't really know any messaging application that has good, native desktop apps. Can't really include iMessage in good faith due to the platform restrictions.

Skype has always worked for me. Unfortunately it's not secure.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#195

Post by balladeer » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:52 AM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #174

0xADEADBEE wrote: post #51

Long-time Signal user but I'm on the verge of moving I think. There are several UX shortcomings but the new PIN nag is a bridge too far. What are my options for alternatives? I imagine Telegram is the next best bet but very open to suggestions.

Matrix: https://matrix.org/

If UX is the concern then Matrix/Riot may not fare very well.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#196

Post by smichel17 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:53 AM UTC

partyboat1586 wrote: post #182

techntoke wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Signal app experience leaves a lot to be desired compared to Telegram or Matrix.

It's just a fact that Telegram has more features. Every few weeks I get a notification with a long list of features, it's a more rich experience. My main favourite thing is just that gifs show up bigger. Muted chat, chat groups, draw on photos, stickers on photos, quiz / polls, dice rolls. Signal does cover the basics well through (GIFs, voice messages, video, photo, replies) and it has a clean interface.

> Muted chat, chat groups, draw on photos, stickers on photos,

Signal has all of these

> quiz / polls, dice rolls.

Not these, as far as I know.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#197

Post by ClikeX » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 9:56 AM UTC

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #94

nmfisher wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, my (65 year old) mum is the only one I managed to convince to use to Signal. All my (mid-30s) friends won't budge from WhatsApp.

Having 'Message me on Signal' as status message on WhatsApp and not replying to non-urgent messages from Whatsapp helped to covert some of my contacts.

Nobody gave a shit about my status to contact me elswhwere. People just open the existing conversation and never see it anyway. And most don't care, or want to switch.

Whatsapp is THE messaging standard in my country. Hell, even our politicans use it for communication. "Apping" is even used by news outlets to describe communication by Whatsapp.

We used to have SMS and MSN. Now it's either Whatsapp or Messenger. Depending only on the fact if you have the others phone number or not.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#198

Post by partyboat1586 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 10:02 AM UTC

smichel17 wrote: post #196

partyboat1586 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a fact that Telegram has more features. Every few weeks I get a notification with a long list of features, it's a more rich experience. My main favourite thing is just that gifs show up bigger. Muted chat, chat groups, draw on photos, stickers on photos, quiz / polls, dice rolls. Signal does cover the basics well through (GIFs, voice messages, video, photo, replies) and it has a clean interface.

> Muted chat, chat groups, draw on photos, stickers on photos, Signal has all of these > quiz / polls, dice rolls. Not these, as far as I know.

By chat groups I mean chat folders. You can put some chats into a folder to organise them. Clearly every chat app has group chats.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#199

Post by 0x49d1 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 10:12 AM UTC

smichel17 wrote: post #196

partyboat1586 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a fact that Telegram has more features. Every few weeks I get a notification with a long list of features, it's a more rich experience. My main favourite thing is just that gifs show up bigger. Muted chat, chat groups, draw on photos, stickers on photos, quiz / polls, dice rolls. Signal does cover the basics well through (GIFs, voice messages, video, photo, replies) and it has a clean interface.

> Muted chat, chat groups, draw on photos, stickers on photos, Signal has all of these > quiz / polls, dice rolls. Not these, as far as I know.

Also lacks proper fast and memory efficient desktop client, good cloud backups, settings for almost everything (traffic usage/space/visuals), programmable bots. And I'm not saying about some features that for example I use a lot, like "Channels" (Almost always for news, but with ability to offline access to linked websites). Anyway: you just have to test for yourself how comfortably fast their software is on both desktop/mobile platforms. Tho sure I like Signal very much, it's just not a product for "average human" for now.

Re: Signal app downloads spike as US protesters seek message encryption

#200

Post by acdha » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 10:12 AM UTC

est31 wrote: post #187

jwr wrote: post #168

What really hurts Signal are two things: * sub-par user experience: WhatsApp is just nicer and smoother, and people tend to like that * very few people understand that Signal DOES NOT get your full contact list, while Facebook (through WhatsApp) does Especially the second point is very relevant with the current situation — you do not necessarily want to expose your entire social graph to Facebook. But so few people u…

> Signal DOES NOT get your full contact list The full contact list is uploaded to Signal servers by the phones. The only protection layer that users have is the questionable security of Intel's SGX. It's still much better than what WhatsApp is doing, just not a black and white situation. To add a point to your list: Signal does not have automatic cloud backup of messages, unlike WhatsApp. On WhatsApp, 30% of users ha…

Do you have a reference for the claim that your full contact list is uploaded to servers? That seems important since their privacy policy says that they only use hashes, and it can’t be dependent on SGX since it runs on non-Intel hardware:

https://signal.org/legal/#privacy-policy