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Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

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Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#191

You can tell a lot about a developer by their preferred database. * Mongo: I like things easy, even if easy is dangerous. I probably write Javascript exclusively * MySQL: I don't like to rock the boat, and MySQL is available everywhere * PostgreSQL: I'm not afraid of the command line * H2: My company can't afford a database admin, so I embedded the database in our application (I have actually done this) * SQLite: I'm…

* Cockroach / Spanner: you know what's cooler than millions?

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#193
post #177
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was floored by this comment yesterday from one of their Developer Relations people: > Did any of you actually read the article? We are passing the Jepsen test suite and it was back in 2017 already. So, no, MongoDB is not losing anything if you know what you are doing. https://twitter.com/MBeugnet/status/1253622755049734150?s=20 Can you imagine saying the phrase "if you know what you are doing," in public, to your u…

Firstly let me point out that this response is neither intended as a defence of MongoDB defaults which are atrocious, or of the company, who are arguably duplicitous. However I can _quite easily_ see how a non-native English speaker could use the phrase “if you know what you are doing” to mean “if you are careful”.

"If you are careful you might not lose all your data" doesn't sound very reassuring, either.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mission critical apps Thanks for the clarification. As an example: would you consider the backend software stack that manages physical access to the campus 'mission critical'?

I would not. Facebook.com still operates with or without that system. Especially now with COVID-19, I’m sure it’s not being used at all. Mission critical - essential for operating Facebook.com

> I’m sure it’s not being used at all

Is is a company wide system? Its all fun and games until the cooling in a dc starts to have issues and the facilities team can't gain access because....mongo... ?

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#195
Lying about your test results from Jepsen is like going onto a reality show with Chef Ramsey, being thrown off for incompetence, then putting his name on your restautant's ads "Chef Ramsey ate here!"

I'd pay to watch Kyle screaming at people in the MongoDB offices, not that he screams or anything. Just a spectacular mental image: "IT'S NOT ATOMIC! IT COULDN'T SERIALIZE A DOG'S DINNER!"

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#196
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be a stupid question, but surely no one thinks of RabbigMQ as a database right? I’ve used it from 2012 to 2018 extensively, including using things like shovels to build hub spoke topologies, however not once did I think of it as anything but a message broker. Did I miss something huge?

> This might be a stupid question, but surely no one thinks of RabbigMQ as a database right? Arguably the world's most popular database is Microsoft Excel.

It’s definitely popular, that much is inarguable.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#197

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

I have found their salespeople to be the most sleazy and unethical of any that I’ve worked with. Much worse than all the other database vendors combined.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#198

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

The joke I learned early on: "Migrating away from Mongo is trivial: wait long enough, and all your data will be gone anyway." I imagine things are better now.

They’re not.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#199
post #77

You can tell a lot about a developer by their preferred database. * Mongo: I like things easy, even if easy is dangerous. I probably write Javascript exclusively * MySQL: I don't like to rock the boat, and MySQL is available everywhere * PostgreSQL: I'm not afraid of the command line * H2: My company can't afford a database admin, so I embedded the database in our application (I have actually done this) * SQLite: I'm…

SQL Server: I use C# and write line-of-business applications.

My day job involves developing for / customizing / maintaining two separate third-party systems that rely on SQL Server (one of them optionally supports Oracle, but fuck that).

I gotta say, as much as I hate it with a passion, and as often as it breaks for seemingly silly reasons (so many deadlocks), it's at least tolerable (even if I feel like Postgres is better by just about every metric).

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#200
post #128

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

I was floored by this comment yesterday from one of their Developer Relations people: > Did any of you actually read the article? We are passing the Jepsen test suite and it was back in 2017 already. So, no, MongoDB is not losing anything if you know what you are doing. https://twitter.com/MBeugnet/status/1253622755049734150?s=20 Can you imagine saying the phrase "if you know what you are doing," in public, to your u…

It’s not that he’s lying. He just has a tenuous arrangement with the truth.
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