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Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

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Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#191

One of the most interesting parts of this is the story behind Nintendo's use of friend codes rather than Gamertags. There was a presentation [0] leaked that outlined that usernames "weren't simple enough". It's a great look into Nintendo's Wi-Fi Strategy [0] https://www.docdroid.net/Qr3JNsl/wi-fi-concept-pdf#page=11

All of their points looks like an attempt to justify bad decisions.

SW-7899-1252-5983 is simpler than username systems children could figure out on Neopets and Club Penguin? People can guess your username because they know your name is Billy?

Discord and Blizzard have the ultimate ez solution: What username do you want? Billy. Alright, if you want someone to find you, give them this string: Billy#1201.

Nintendo still hasn't made an online system as good as Xbox Live in 2002. How they justify SW-7899-1252-5983 as the ideal trade-off sheds some light that they might have an institional-level lack of intuition about what a compelling online experience looks like. Which is interesting because I think most people by now assumed catastrophic indifference.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#192
post #179
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The N64 emulation scene has always been heavily drama filled, going back at least 20 years to the original Oman archives. While the system architecture is bizarre, that's fine, we can cope with that. It's always just been a very toxic social space that has pushed a lot of the more talented emulator developers away. As someone who is in "emulation-adjacent" communities, just yesterday I ran into a giant new pocket of…

The whole emulation scene (well at least a very good part of it) is full of drama. That's fascinating; they somehow have the time for that after writing state of the art whole system highly optimized emulators, sometimes inventing new techniques on the fly...

The person that spends the time required to learn about game consoles on a deep technical level to write emulators. Will not have much time left to refine their social skills.

It is allot of personal free time they put in to these projects so I guess it is understandable that they want to protect their work.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#193
post #69

I like drawing metaphors from Tamiya. Tamiya is a Japanese scale modelling and remote-controlled vehicle company with a loooong history of making quality products that the industry just eats up. Like Nintendo, Tamiya has always been in the back row when it comes to technological innovation, but lead the pack when it came to functionality, reliability, and quality. Just like Nintendo, there are Tamiya fan clubs where…

Wait - so I can finally buy the Monster Beetle I dearly wanted as a 14 year old? I imagine the modern iterations are significantly better than those I drooled over as a child, with 30 odd years of improvements in electric motors and batteries?

That was also my first thought as well. Those things were awesome.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that what clean room reverse engineering is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design Very cool. I didn’t remember that this had been a plot point in Halt and Catch Fire.

This is the main plot point in S01E01, when Gordon Clark and Joe MacMillan reverse engineer the IBM and dump the BIOS (and is later mentioned a few times when Cameron Howe is rewriting the BIOS).

Spoilers ahead if you haven't watched the show (quotes from S01E01: I/O):

> Gordon Clark: A personal computer, like any other computer, is just a nothing box full of electronic switches and hardware. You know, the IBM, the Altair, the Apple II... it's all the same junk. Anyone can buy all this stuff off the shelf right now. It's called "open architecture." I mean, IBM, they basically don't own anything inside the machine.

> Joe MacMillan: Except the chip.

> Gordon Clark: Yeah, well, except what's on the chip. The BIOS is on one of these chips, we just don't know which one. The ROM BIOS is the only part of the machine IBM actually designed. I mean, it is the program, it is the magic. The bad news is they copyrighted it and they own how it works. The good news is there's a way around that, sort of.

> Joe MacMillan: Reverse engineering.

After dumping the BIOS, IBM decides to sue Cardiff Electric because Joe MacMillan tells IBM about their little "side project", forcing the company to dedicate resources towards actually building a IBM PC clone. In the meeting with Cardiff Electric's lawyer (Barry Shields), they agree to do a clean room implementation.

> John Bosworth: Why can't we fire these peckerheads?

> Barry Shields: Because then you'll lose this lawsuit. Fire them, shelve their work, you're essentially admitting guilt.

> John Bosworth: Okay, so what's the solution, Barry?

> Barry Shields: We legitimize the project.

> John Bosworth: What?

> Barry Shields: Go the other way. We say Cardiff Electric as a company has been pursuing PC development all along. You take Clark's findings on the BIOS chip, you tell an engineer to build a unit that operates and performs in exactly the same way, but you don't tell him how to do it.

> John Bosworth: Hell, I don't think we have one engineer capable of building a BIOS from scratch other than "Sonny Bono" over here.

> Barry Shields: And you can't use him or any other engineer we currently employ.

> John Bosworth: So we have to hire?

> Barry Shields: Yes, someone who doesn't know us or IBM, and certainly hasn't seen the contents of this binder. Essentially, all the law stipulates is that he can't be hands-on in the actual chip creation.

> John Bosworth: And we can't fire them.

> Barry Shields: No, not right now.

> John Bosworth: So we get out of this by actually building a PC clone? This is your brilliant idea to save our hides, Barry? For God's sake, man!

> Barry Shields: No. Actually, it was MacMillan's.

> John Bosworth: You son of a bitch.

And then later, when they hire Cameron Howe as the programmer to write the BIOS for their clone, there is a whole scene on her first day where Barry Shields interviews her to make sure everything is legal, and that she wasn't involved in the reverse engineering.

> Barry Shields: Answer honestly. This is for legal record. False answers put you at risk of perjury, you understand?

> (Cameron nods)

> Barry Shields: I'm sorry, you have to answer "yes" or "I do."

> Cameron Howe: Oh, yes, I do.

> Barry Shields: Have you ever attempted to disassemble or deconstruct any product manufactured by International Business Machines, more commonly known as IBM?

> Cameron Howe: Uh, no, I have not.

> Barry Shields: Have you ever attempted to reverse engineer any product or equipment made by IBM?

> Cameron Howe: No, I have not.

> Barry Shields: Have you ever attempted to reverse engineer any microchips, microcode, or any computer hardware while under the employ of a business or corporation?

> Cameron Howe: No, I have not.

> John Bosworth: Well, welcome to the tiniest, leakiest lifeboat you ever tried to paddle to shore in.

The rest of the season highlights how Cameron is placed in a "clean room" (aka the storage closet) without looking at the binder containing the dumped BIOS.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#195

> The PC emulation community could also theoretically use the data to improve their software so that it imitates the original systems perfectly. However, since the leaked documentation has been illegally obtained this would put them in murky territory. I'd love to hear opinions about this whole thing from folks who work on emulators.

I made very small contributions to Yuzu (switch emulator), and there's an extremely strict anti-piracy stance to the entire dev process.

The entire dev discord is entirely anti-piracy as well. Anything linking the source code to pirated code would "taint" the whole project legally.

So while you can theoretically read those leaks on your own and use that acquired knowledge to contribute to the project, there has to be a hard stance against tainted contributions to protect the project legally.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero experience in the video game industry, but I'd think that since video games get ~zero attention after they're shipped, writing maintainable code is less of a priority. I'd be really curious to see how the Pokemon Red/Blue split was done. Is it a C precompiler flag? Build config? Actual config? Cloned repo?

In the Pokemon Blue codebase they use 2 flag variables to distinguish between the different games, these are `pokemon_type` and `pokemon_type_blue`. The name of the second flag definitely hints that it was added later in development. These are the values for each game: Green: pokemon_type=0 pokemon_type_blue=0 Red: pokemon_type=1 pokemon_type_blue=0 Blue: pokemon_type=1 pokemon_type_blue=1 The general pattern for bra…

Very cool, uncovering game development history via the source code.

Thanks for this!

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#197
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bryan Cantrill gave a talk that included how difficult it was to take something that wasn't originally intended to be open source and then open source it. I think it was something at Sun before they were acquired by Oracle (iirc Cantrill laments how Oracle effectively un-open-sourced the project). I've watched hours of Cantrill on youtube, I'm having trouble finding which video it was. I can't explain it myself but I…

I'm a PM at Microsoft that worked on open-sourcing PowerShell. As Windows PowerShell, it's a built-in Windows component, and the number of assumptions that could be made because it was both closed-source and part of the OS were immense . Even getting it to build outside of the rest of the operating system was crazy hard. Then figuring out to install it in a supported way was hard, and only then did we get to start fi…

Thank you for this story, it's very inspiring. I'm sure they will find something good they can open source eventually, even if it isn't those two things.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's genuinely weird that they still don't have a virtual console for anything other than a select few NES games. We're midway through the Switch's lifecyle already!

I've never heard a compelling reason for Nintendo not doing this. Why don't they have a full catalog available on the Switch? It's technically feasible and would make them boatloads of cash.

Probable because of licensing reasons. Nintendo may have a license to distribute a game, but it’s probably limited to the console it was designed for.

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#199
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really comparable. It is legal to rip ROMs for your own use. Distributing ROMs discreetly is illegal, but also basically impossible to prove. If reverse-engineered, the hardware ABI that the cartridge uses to converse with the system is not copyrightable[1] so you can distribute an emulator that you developed. Meanwhile it's pretty trivial to prove that some code is derived from some other code or some inter…

>It is legal to rip ROMs for your own use Incorrect. People say this all the time but no, it is not in fact legal. It's never been tested in court and Nintendo takes the explicit view that both it is illegal to rip your own roms and that said devices are illegal. Now you and I can disagree with Nintendo, but Nintendo could sue someone for ripping their own roms. They won't however, because it would be an incredibly d…

I wonder. What’s the difference between ripping the ROM of an IC versus just hooking the address and data pins of the IC into your computer and using some code to interface with the emulator?

Re: Nintendo has reportedly suffered a significant legacy console leak

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero experience in the video game industry, but I'd think that since video games get ~zero attention after they're shipped, writing maintainable code is less of a priority. I'd be really curious to see how the Pokemon Red/Blue split was done. Is it a C precompiler flag? Build config? Actual config? Cloned repo?

In the Pokemon Blue codebase they use 2 flag variables to distinguish between the different games, these are `pokemon_type` and `pokemon_type_blue`. The name of the second flag definitely hints that it was added later in development. These are the values for each game: Green: pokemon_type=0 pokemon_type_blue=0 Red: pokemon_type=1 pokemon_type_blue=0 Blue: pokemon_type=1 pokemon_type_blue=1 The general pattern for bra…

I seem to recall watching a video somewhere, perhaps on Didyouknowgaming, that Clefairy was intended to be the Pokémon mascot before Pikachu. I could be completely wrong here, but if so that is really cool to think it may have had its own game!
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