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Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

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Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#191

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

DavideNL wrote: post #174

Am i the only one who thinks it's mindblowing that people use Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, etc. however now that Apple + Google release a tool to prevent thousands of people from dying in a pandemic they start thinking/complaining about the possible privacy implications? (without even having read the specs or knowing the details...)

It's more than reasonable to be suspicious of big tech companies, especially the ones residing in Silicon Valley. They haven't earned people's trust and that is the outcome. Just like you would be skeptical of Chinese communist party releasing app promising to help the world with covid19.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#192

Post by Mirioron »

34679 wrote: post #114
tengbretson wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But for the moment, we are united by fear and have some latitude to act. We're literally still fighting the wars that arose out of the last time we acted in a moment where we were "united by fear."

And living with the erosion of Constitutional protections that seem all too easy to push through in times like these, but impossible to roll back afterward.

And this is why it's done during a crisis: it works. All the education and talk about how the last time the government overstepped their bounds goes out the window the moment a crisis hits. Then it's all about "why isn't the government doing more?"

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#193

Post by mmcnl »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #139

Two major OS platforms covering majority of the population working together in an attempt to better track current populations at behest of the government. How could anyone even begin to feel a wee bit cynical? To question this effort it worse than wanting PATRIOT ACT to expire. It is downright unamerican. I hate the fact that I definitely see a good reason for it and the goverment is more than happy to accommodate th…

Have you even read the spec before dumping your thoughts? They address the privacy concerns explicitly. A short summary:

- Doesn't collect personally identifiable information or user location data

- People who test positive are not identified to other users, Google or Apple

- List of people you’ve been in contact with never leaves your phone

https://blog.google/documents/57/Overview_of_COVID-19_Contac...

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#194

Post by aqq10 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #68
JoshTriplett wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We haven't gotten rid of it, it still exists. It just isn't being used right now. Getting rid of it would be to abolish it entirely, and instead require people to voluntarily consent in the future. (And if you can't get people to agree to it, perhaps that should tell you something.) "needed" isn't even a factor here. An involuntary mechanism for contact or location tracing that's accessible to governmental authoritie…

> It just isn't being used right now. The American public exercised their power to elect politicians who'd end the draft as the Vietnam War got progressively more unpopular. It's well within our powers, if we care enough.

If you care enough, sure. But a draft during war times is something very concrete and threatening.

This is something covert, like secret courts, unconstitutional data collection, manipulating the stock market for the 1%.

You won't get people to care once a new, barely visible leash is entrenched.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#195

Post by colmmacc »

soamv wrote: post #97

The spec pdf looks a lot like the DP-3T protocol. The DP-3T docs have more explanation and a good discussion of privacy aspects. https://github.com/DP-3T/documents paper: https://github.com/DP-3T/documents/blob/master/DP3T%20White%... data protection aspects: https://github.com/DP-3T/documents/blob/master/DP3T%20-%20Da... Here's an overview comparing that approach to some others (such as Singapore's tracetogether): h…

They're not the same and I think Google/Apple's is a bit better. In DP3T the infected person shares a single daily key from which all future daily keys can be derived. In Google/Apple's each daily key is HKDF derived from a master key and they are not linkable. Infected people share the relevant daily keys from their infection period. THat's more data to push around, but it is better for privacy.

It means that contacts with infected persons can't be linked across days, and it means that I can't build an app that alerts me that someone who was previously infected just walked by.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#196

Post by _2d30 »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #139

Two major OS platforms covering majority of the population working together in an attempt to better track current populations at behest of the government. How could anyone even begin to feel a wee bit cynical? To question this effort it worse than wanting PATRIOT ACT to expire. It is downright unamerican. I hate the fact that I definitely see a good reason for it and the goverment is more than happy to accommodate th…

Is this at the behest of the government? Seems privately driven?

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#197

Post by conradev »

simonsaidit wrote: post #125
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can compel cell phone companies to give this data to the government already Bluetooth has a quite small range, which may give higher tracking precision (to anyone receiving the signal) than the data cell phone companies have.

The alternative would be GPS which some governments are looking at now. It might give higher precision with a grid of location data to enhance it, but I would assume the protocol prevents this eg by some randomization of ids?

GPS is completely unidirectional from satellites to receivers and thus the satellites cannot be used to track the receivers

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#198

Post by rojobuffalo »

Contact tracing has a time and place, and it's early in isolated outbreaks. The cat is out of the bag at this point and thinking we're going to contact trace our way to safety is a false promise. You'd have to be naive and short-sighted to accept their pinky-promise of privacy-first in this context.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#199

Post by summerlight »

pkaye wrote: post #40

Is this the approach that South Korea and Singapore used?

Not really. For contact tracing, S.Korea is using a much more aggressive approach built upon a framework to join cellphone location from mobile providers, credit card usages and potentially CCTV.

Re: Apple and Google partner on Covid-19 contact tracing technology

#200

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

mmcnl wrote: post #193
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #139

Two major OS platforms covering majority of the population working together in an attempt to better track current populations at behest of the government. How could anyone even begin to feel a wee bit cynical? To question this effort it worse than wanting PATRIOT ACT to expire. It is downright unamerican. I hate the fact that I definitely see a good reason for it and the goverment is more than happy to accommodate th…

Have you even read the spec before dumping your thoughts? They address the privacy concerns explicitly. A short summary: - Doesn't collect personally identifiable information or user location data - People who test positive are not identified to other users, Google or Apple - List of people you’ve been in contact with never leaves your phone https://blog.google/documents/57/Overview_of_COVID-19_Contac...

I will admit that I did not, but having seen trends over the past few decades taught me to be rather skeptical. In other words, today's specs are little more to me than promises. I am ok with being downvoted for this.

edit: I just "read" it ( it is not even a spec - it is not even a powerpoint presentation ). You are down voting me for questioning a couple of pictograms?

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