Google bans Zoom from employees' computers • Hacker News Board

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#191

Post by com2kid » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #100

softwaredoug wrote: post #30

God please don't make me use a non-zoom video conferencing tool! I have used about a dozen over the years in my role as a consultant, and Zoom has been by far the most reliable. I’m hopeful lots of good can come from the scrutiny, but please Zoom get your act together so I don’t have to use some other buggy thing that doesn’t actually work.

It's fascinating to see people's experiences. I've been using WebEx in enterprise/corporate environment for couple of years intensively, and it "just works". I can download desktop client, but I can also just run it on browser. Zoom always wants to install weird clients that violate policies and cause my corporate laptops to refuse or bork. I recognize my experience may be a minority one, but I'm surprised, genuinely…

WebEx on MacOS will, if left open and idle, randomly tell my headset that a phone call is starting, then it will disconnect it shortly after. Sometimes it disconnects two calls in a row (my headset announces when a call ends).

And every so often by virtue of being open in the background, WebEx manages to somehow crash my BT headphones.

Other than that, no real complaints.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#192

Post by walrus01 » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:34 PM UTC

jasonv wrote: post #189

If the tech community can't prioritize security over features, it's pretty rich for same community to declare that the "average joe" doesn't care about security.

The same "tech community" that's been drinking the "move fast and break things" and "be disruptive in your market segment" koolaid for 15-20 years? Unsurprised.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#193

Post by kryogen1c » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:34 PM UTC

magicsmoke wrote: post #137

kryogen1c wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

got a source for that claim? I work in IT and we use zoom and I have never read that in any article. not that we save anything from zoom that I need to be concerned about key storage for, but concerning nonetheless.

https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/move-fast-roll-your-own-crypto... "The AES-128 keys, which we verified are sufficient to decrypt Zoom packets intercepted in Internet traffic, appear to be generated by Zoom servers, and in some cases, are delivered to participants in a Zoom meeting through servers in China, even when all meeting participants, and the Zoom subscriber’s company, are outside of China."

this is explicitly not what I asked, and not what the person I was replying to said. besides, zoom already owned this mistake.

https://blog.zoom.us/wordpress/2020/04/03/response-to-resear...

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#194

Post by kyuudou » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

wolco wrote: post #33

_delirium wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprisingly common for people not to own a non-work computer other than a phone/tablet, especially now that prevalence of desktop computers is declining. Some people do still have a home desktop, or a separate personal laptop, but a lot of people I know don't. Or they might have one but it's a shared family computer that's mostly used by the kids, while parents use their work laptops.

If you ever owned a desktop chance are you have one now. A lot of people skipped them and went straight to an iphone.

and if it gets compromised, who's liable and how for what

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#195

Post by coleifer » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

I don't like zoom either, but what exactly made them the HN punching bag of the month? Ad/surveillance giants like Google or FB are typically spoken of with notes of reverence and awe on here. Zoom gets lit-up for sending data to FB, but FB gets a pass? I don't know I just can't get into the mood. extinguishes torch in moat.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#196

Post by Mvandenbergh » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #103

QUFB wrote: post #83

Some thoughts: 1. Google's threat model may not be your threat model, and it definitely isn't the threat model of my daughter's school. A corporation like Google may be concerned using native applications, written in unsafe languages, written by developers from other corporations in China. That said, Zoom isn't wrong for everyone. 2. Google is motivated to push their own solution for obvious reasons. 3. Tavis, or oth…

> Google's threat model may not be your threat model, and it definitely isn't the threat model of my daughter's school. A corporation like Google may be concerned using native applications, written in unsafe languages, written by developers from other corporations in China. That said, Zoom isn't wrong for everyone. Google's threat model surely differs in some way from a school, but the specific threats you named seem…

The threat model for a school is kids/others disrupting sessions and creepers using access to gawp at (or communicate with kids). Since the Chinese government is unlikely to feel the need to compel Zoom to do that, the fact that they have all the keys centrally stored is not a problem.

Google's threat model actually does include state level attack (And specifically by China) to steal IP or access confidential user data.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#197

Post by pfranz » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #130

softwaredoug wrote: post #30

God please don't make me use a non-zoom video conferencing tool! I have used about a dozen over the years in my role as a consultant, and Zoom has been by far the most reliable. I’m hopeful lots of good can come from the scrutiny, but please Zoom get your act together so I don’t have to use some other buggy thing that doesn’t actually work.

> God please don't make me use a non-zoom video conferencing tool! I have honestly lost track of the amount of software I've seen in the past 20 years, that people insist they absolutely must continue to use despite its well documented gaping security flaws. Because it has a better UI or makes their life very slightly more convenient in some way. Versions of Microsoft Office from the early 2000s where an entire opera…

What are you advocating for? Either way business will continue; lock down security and people (and productivity) will suffer but still continue, ignore security and business will still happen. Different business will fail in each scenario, but the world won't end. Heck, force people to jump through hoops to support insecure software and work still gets done: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22804208

I hope Zoom gets their act together because their competitors, with way more time and resources, suck a lot more. I don't think it's because of the difference in security--maybe it's because competitors were focusing on Enterprise or because it wasn't their core business?

I think each of those companies that have banned it make sense, even if that means the average person should continue using it. Zoombombing elementary school children because of a misconfiguration (or just because of the media reports) isn't a great idea and the security concerns warrant the rest. I still don't see much of an issue for other business and most personal use.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#198

Post by benatkin » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

nimish wrote: post #81

benatkin wrote: post #27

I hope that Zoom will make it easier to use their web client because of this.

This is lifechanging, the zoom native app is a security nightmare and the web experience is deliberately crap.

It would be wonderful. I don't want to be a Zoom hater, but they give me no choice. I'm uninstalling it now in hopes that next time I need to join a Zoom, the web experience will be improved.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#199

Post by tuyiown » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #180

tazjin wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Meet is the only one of these that has always worked reliably for me. Doesn't require any strange clients, works in most browsers, never randomly fails to move just some person's audio and so on. Disclaimer: I work for Alphabet, but already held this opinion before I did.

I have never gotten Google Meet to work in Firefox. Or the new Edge for that matter, despite it using the Chromium engine. It seems to work only in Chrome and Safari.

I get it to work properly on Firefox/MacOs lately, better than Safari actually, but it's a very recent development.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#200

Post by addison-lee » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 9:38 PM UTC

arrty88 wrote: post #116

Zoom's issues are fixable... unlike a hardware defect like the macbook pro keyboard and the iphone antenna that didn't work well... Zoom is clearly better than the alternatives and has my 80 year old uncle talking about it. This too shall pass.

Gotta somehow bash Apple!