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Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

#191

Post by rfoo »

heinrich5991 wrote: post #98
rfoo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, their new HCAPTCHA is a notorious PITA for anyone, including those whose browser is Chrome and keep cookies. Browsing an "I'm under attack"-mode website behind Cloudflare has been super annoying for me since last week. To the point that I usually close the page when I see a HCAPTCHA. Their visual challenge is harder to navigate than reCAPTCHA, and because this is their business model I suspect they…

Why do you assume that a good CAPTCHA should positively discriminate Chrome users?

I don't. I assume a good CAPTCHA should reduce the size of the subset of users who must solve hard challenges as possible. The old reCAPTCHA usually requires only one click, no visual challenge for me. I don't like the fact this is because I use Chrome and logged in my Google account, but with HCAPTCHA I'm just not seeing any chance they make the experience better, no matter what browser I use, they just don't want to make my experience better, their business model is based on me suffering.

Re: Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

#192

Post by mminer237 »

Kalium wrote: post #90
sgc wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it's enough money to tank peoples' traffic over it.

I'm quite sure you're correct. When stacked against however much Google was going to charge (I assume more than zero), Cloudflare's incentives seem pretty clear to me.

Yeah....In the article, it says that Google wanted to charge millions of dollars and that Cloudflare did not think hCaptcha trying to pay them was sustainable, so they agreed to pay hCaptcha a large amount, but only a fraction of what Google would charge.

Re: Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

#193

Post by Hello71 »

IAmEveryone wrote: post #72
Hello71 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my bet is that the bean counters have caught up with this product, and it'll be run into the ground with excessive pricing, because Google products have to make millions or otherwise they'll be killed. most notably, Reader.

These complaints about Google "moving too fast" used to really confuse me. I couldn't really spot a meaningful difference in mean survival b/w Google products, start-ups similar to individual Google products, and other businesses' behaviour. But I've now attained zen-like clarity on the issue: the complaints are coming only, and always were coming mostly, from people whose idea of appropriate change over time is to s…

this is being intentionally obtuse. Hire shutting down got 200 points 7 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20815293, also see: Hangouts, Google+, Nest, Code Search, Site Search.....

it's not about "moving fast" at all. it's about google killing anything that doesn't make millions as opposed to just thousands (enough for basic maintenance). I never said anything about timeframe.

Re: Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

#194

Post by sixothree »

weinzierl wrote: post #42
noad wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're forgetting the main benefit for google, which is getting humans to train all their vision models for free. At one point they were just forcing X% of clicks to fill out a captcha regardless of origin or identity just to get more data. I for one am getting quite tired of trillion dollar corporations getting things for free out of me. Hard pass.

> You're forgetting the main benefit for google, which is getting humans to train all their vision models for free. Is this still true? I keep seeing the same type of images for years and there might be 7 or 8 different categories but that's it. To me reCaptcha looks like a service well in its maintenance phase. If it was actually in use for training purposes you might expect images to match a wider range of tasks.

Like trees, bridges, fire hydrants, cars, buses, house numbers, etc?

Re: Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

#195

Post by [deleted] »

zachware wrote: post #21

One of the more insidious elements of ReCAPTCHA is its propensity to challenge users who have robust cookie blocking in place. So as we encourage people to be more privacy-aware, the web gets harder and harder to use. We've seen ReCAPTCHA pop all over ecommerce, all over benign websites with little to no need to challenge use almost completely because of the increase in privacy-aware users. ReCAPTCHA essentially flie…

[deleted]

Re: Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

#196

Post by drusepth »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #171
drusepth wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most kinds of gated security, many solutions are borne out of inspecting the payload instead of who's sending it. Captchas prevent bots from submitting spam, but they don't prevent humans from submitting spam. In 99% of cases, your problem is the spam, not who is submitting it. The non-lazy solution is to look at the content itself and directly determine whether it's spam, instead of relying on a related heurist…

This isn't an alternative solution, just one you could do alongside making it difficult for drive-by bot spam. For example, let's look at an actual service for identifying spam payloads: Akismet. It still lets a lot of spam through, especially in non-English languages.

This is a solution that, if done "perfectly", should be able to catch 100% of spam submissions. This is in contrast to things like captchas (because they "test" something other than the end-goal [no spam] to guess at whether something is spam or not, while ignoring spam from humans [or humans filling out captchas on behalf of bots], and cause problems for both humans and benign bots).

Obviously, it's an extremely hard problem that is hard to do 100% correctly. But it's a viable non-lazy solution (that still needs a lot more work than the current state-of-the-art implementations) compared to the lazy solution of just putting captchas on the page.

The ideal solution would get rid of spam without inconveniencing users who aren't submitting spam, I'd think, which means captchas aren't it.

Re: Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

#199

Post by splintercell »

alexnewman wrote: post #177
ronyfadel wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Alex, one suggestion, the HCaptcha challenge box is way to tall, sitting at 725px, it's larger than the chrome viewport on a 13" MBP, so I have to keep on scrolling up and down to solve the captcha.

You would not believe how much we think about these things. We appreciate the feedback and will continue to tune for every puzzle. Thank you so much for the feedback.

can you get 4chan to start using hcaptcha, I can't tell you how much I hate Google recaptcha. not to mention the brainiacs at 4 Chan have figured out how to solve Google's recaptcha easily.

Re: Moving from reCAPTCHA to hCaptcha

#200

Post by IanCal »

eastdakota wrote: post #186
hedora wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what privacy pass is, but if it involves setting browser state across more than one site, then it breaks the tor anonymity model. Anyway, hopefully hCaptcha works with Tor.

Specifically designed to allow you to authenticate once and then use that as a proof of work across multiple sites, without revealing your identity as being connected across those sites. Here's the math: https://blog.cloudflare.com/privacy-pass-the-math/

I'm not so hot on this stuff so this might be answered or clear on the site and I didn't get it - can the other sites tell who authenticated you? Can the authenticator add metadata?

I'm wondering about other use cases, using it to prove you've paid for something, or donated perhaps. Or passed a daily quiz/challenge. I feel like there's some fun ways of using this.

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