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Time to Ban Wet Markets

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Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#191

Post by mytailorisrich »

holtalanm wrote: post #58
Traster wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wet markets? Do you want to be able to go to a market and buy fresh fish? Do you think that's an option that should be available to you or to your favourite restaurant owner? Because if so, then well done, you're one of the people that think these markets are ok. Edit: Here's Gordon Ramsey giving you a guide on how to buy good fish (spoiler: he's at a wet market) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GTTXJKZ08Q

that isn't a wet market. apparently just regular food markets are considered wet markets by people that don't know what a wet market is. those fish are DEAD. one staple of a wet market is LIVE ANIMALS.

Dead of live makes little difference.

What we're seeing is racism against a different culture.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#192

Post by baq »

heldupathome wrote: post #13

I think it’s a disgrace that the Chinese government hasn’t apologized for 1.) keeping wet market open 2.) silencing whistleblower doctor that would have stopped a pandemic 3.) letting 5 million people leave Wuhan 4.) pressuring WHO to not recommend border shutdown against China - Conjecture 5.) silencing whistleblowers inside China and around the world 6.) at one point, was surfacing propagandas that the virus didn’t…

preemptively stating that asking China to apologize is NOT racist.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#193

Post by baq »

_jal wrote: post #34
heldupathome wrote: post #13

I think it’s a disgrace that the Chinese government hasn’t apologized for 1.) keeping wet market open 2.) silencing whistleblower doctor that would have stopped a pandemic 3.) letting 5 million people leave Wuhan 4.) pressuring WHO to not recommend border shutdown against China - Conjecture 5.) silencing whistleblowers inside China and around the world 6.) at one point, was surfacing propagandas that the virus didn’t…

(6) is a direct response to the White House's continued use of 'Wuhan virus', 'Kung Flu' and other racist/shitty deflection garbage. I'm not defending it, but it isn't happening in a vacuum.

it's as racist as Spanish flu was racist.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#194

Post by datnoblesavage »

arcticbull wrote: post #154
adultSwim wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very anti-indigenous. There is nothing wrong with hunting.

I don't think that's what they meant. I read that as there's no material difference between factory farming and wet markets.

No moral difference, but yes you got it.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#195

Post by skoutus »

Waterluvian wrote: post #120
darawk wrote: post #6

It's important not to demonize Chinese people here. However, it's at the very least equally important to ensure that their agricultural practices stop producing these pandemic viruses. This is not the first one. Not even close. This is not one of those things that could have happened anywhere and the Chinese were simply unlucky. This is a direct consequence of their agricultural practices and it is extremely importan…

I don't think we should go out of our way to be racist. But I'm struggling to be outraged by a spade being called a spade. Apparently the origin of CV-19 wasn't random. Maybe China deserves however amount of international shaming is required to evoke reform. Or better than shaming is actual penalties. Maybe we ban wet markets and blacklist nations who allow them.

I'm not here to defend selling bushmeat or the trade of wildlife for "medicine", but wet markets are simply markets where farmers can set up stalls and sell directly to consumers, including livestock and meat. Yes, it doesn't have the same sanitation code as supermarkets, but these wet markets are actually just what regular markets looked like 100 years ago. There's nothing nefarious going on there that breeds pandemic, except for the ones where they trade bushmeat, but these are exceptions; and the problem is the bushmeat, not the wet market.

This author is painting a picture of wet market like it's some kind of seedy underground butcher shop, but the reality is that this is how places like New York or London were selling groceries and food just a hundred years ago. It's just a regular market before the age of super markets.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#196

Post by thu2111 »

skoutus wrote: post #178
darawk wrote: post #6

It's important not to demonize Chinese people here. However, it's at the very least equally important to ensure that their agricultural practices stop producing these pandemic viruses. This is not the first one. Not even close. This is not one of those things that could have happened anywhere and the Chinese were simply unlucky. This is a direct consequence of their agricultural practices and it is extremely importan…

> This is a direct consequence of their agricultural practices Sorry, but you seem very certain of this claim, and I don't see evidence to back it up. Please point us to evidence that Chinese agricultural practices are directly responsible for pandemic viruses. If anything, the common agricultural practices of over-using antibiotic, which the both the US and China engages in, is what most scientific studies have poin…

There have been a lot of papers and investigations that suggested a link to wet markets for this and prior pandemics of respiratory diseases. Here's a paper from 2004:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014067360...

"Wet markets—a continuing source of severe acute respiratory syndrome and influenza?"

Not many parts of the world have this practice and the places that do have nasty viruses.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#197

Post by notacoward »

himinlomax wrote: post #177
coliveira wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not only place where these viruses appear. The swine flu appeared in North America, some kinds of flu appeared in other places like the Middle East. The only thing special about China is that it has a lot of people, so there is a higher probability of human-virus contact.

The swine flu was manageable, because it's a type of flu. The problem with those wet markets, just like with bush meat in Africa, is that they promote new types of viruses. Fixing those markets is not going to stop all new diseases, but it will prevent some of the most dangerous to emerge. The main concern here is that the issue has been long known, and unlike poor, wild Africa where taking action is nearly impossibl…

> The swine flu was manageable, because it's a type of flu.

How about the 1918 flu, misnamed "Spanish" even though the earliest known cases were in Kansas? That's the closest parallel we have to COVID-19, and it wasn't cause by Traditional Chinese Medicine or bush meat or anything like that.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#198

Post by notacoward »

darawk wrote: post #6

It's important not to demonize Chinese people here. However, it's at the very least equally important to ensure that their agricultural practices stop producing these pandemic viruses. This is not the first one. Not even close. This is not one of those things that could have happened anywhere and the Chinese were simply unlucky. This is a direct consequence of their agricultural practices and it is extremely importan…

Terminology alert: this has nothing to do with agricultural practices, since agriculture is the farming of plants. Pastoral practices are barely relevant either, since the disease is thought to have arisen from the practice of consuming wild animals.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#199

Post by adultSwim »

arcticbull wrote: post #154
adultSwim wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very anti-indigenous. There is nothing wrong with hunting.

I don't think that's what they meant. I read that as there's no material difference between factory farming and wet markets.

That makes sense. Thanks.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#200

Post by Waterluvian »

skoutus wrote: post #195
Waterluvian wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we should go out of our way to be racist. But I'm struggling to be outraged by a spade being called a spade. Apparently the origin of CV-19 wasn't random. Maybe China deserves however amount of international shaming is required to evoke reform. Or better than shaming is actual penalties. Maybe we ban wet markets and blacklist nations who allow them.

I'm not here to defend selling bushmeat or the trade of wildlife for "medicine", but wet markets are simply markets where farmers can set up stalls and sell directly to consumers, including livestock and meat. Yes, it doesn't have the same sanitation code as supermarkets, but these wet markets are actually just what regular markets looked like 100 years ago. There's nothing nefarious going on there that breeds pandem…

I think I hear what you're saying. It's about perspective. But I also think you made my point when you said "what regular markets looked like 100 years ago." That's exactly the problem. So yeah, they're not some evil contraption you'd see in a James Bond chase scene. But they're stuck in the past and our health standards have gone way up since then.

Or put more simply: we no-longer have to, and no-longer choose to accept that a percentage of humans are culled from time to time. We cherish and protect even our weakest.

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