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Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

bbc.com

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Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#191

Post by Pfhreak »

mumblemumble wrote: post #95
dairylee wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was someone we definitely noticed about Norway when we were in Oslo for a week. There was so many dads just walking around the city/parks in the middle of the day pushing prams. It was so nice to see.

sigh I suppose none of them have to deal with people dismissively describing spending time with their families as "babysitting", either.

I clap back hard on that when people do it to me. No, I am not babysitting, I'm parenting. Thankfully, it seems to be happening less and less over time.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#192

Post by SolaceQuantum »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #123
zozbot234 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still enable them in ways that don't involve working at a formal job. Doing chores, dealing with household issues, that kind of thing. Having a kid generally means that there's a lot of stressful work to do around the house, and you would be in the right position to deal with that.

All of that has been hired out, because my job enables me to. I do work I enjoy so I don’t have to do work I don’t enjoy.

Being indoors all the time or having to care for a child 24/7 can be extremely isolating even in the best circumstances (where one isn't dealing with recovering from giving birth).

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#193

Post by zozbot234 »

blub wrote: post #104
dudul wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal is probably more to reach equal pay/opportunity as opposed to any population growth agenda. When I was in the EU, I knew a woman who had 4 kids, each ~1/1.5 year appart. So she would have a kid, be out 6 month, go back to work for 6 month, have another kid, rinse and repeat 4 times :) . It was a total nightmare for her employer because they couldn't let her go, and they couldn't hire anyone permanently to do…

A smart employer would have hired someone full time to have slack. Especially after the 2nd kid.

Makes sense. Having kids is one thing, but what if she got hit by a bus. You should never be that dependent on any one person. And there are many lines of work where having the employee take some time off helps with making sure that they're doing their work properly and not hiding something. You just have to plan for it.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#194

Post by socialdemocrat »

keanzu wrote: post #175

> noticed about Norway when we were in Oslo A lot can be achieved when your country floats on oil. The Government Pension Fund Global, aka the Oil Fund, was worth about $195,000 per Norwegian citizen in 2018. If others had this kind of safety net they might behave in a similar manner. Petrostates can afford a lot of leisure time for their citizens.

The stupidity of people these days. This was literally an article about Finland and paternal leave. A country which has no oil. Literally EVERY single Nordic country has this kind of system. Not just Norway.

And Norway had this BEFORE we had any oil.

Never mind the whole inconsistency in your rant. Why do you think the oil fund is so F...ing huge? Because we DON'T spend a lot of oil money. We save it.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#195

Post by onion2k »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #177
socialdemocrat wrote: post #22

Good job Finland! Fellow Nordic here (Norwegian) and a dad. The father quota here in Norway made a huge social change. It really helped make it socially acceptable for dads to spend more time with their children. I noticed for my two sons how much of a difference it makes being around your kids when they are young. You cannot cannot substitute short time with "quality time." The amount of time you are there matters a…

>or independence. Why would you consider it to be an important goal for either parent to have "independence"? What is so wrong with being dependent on your spouse when raising children together that it should even come up as a consideration? Raising children well is hard enough and time consuming enough as it is. Why try to make it harder by also trying to make sure neither parent is dependent on the other?

It's far better to have it and not need it than to need it and not to have it.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#196

Post by Pfhreak »

keanzu wrote: post #175

> noticed about Norway when we were in Oslo A lot can be achieved when your country floats on oil. The Government Pension Fund Global, aka the Oil Fund, was worth about $195,000 per Norwegian citizen in 2018. If others had this kind of safety net they might behave in a similar manner. Petrostates can afford a lot of leisure time for their citizens.

Is there evidence this isn't true for other states? I think we just prioritize differently.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#197

Post by kraigie »

baby_wipe wrote: post #61

I strongly dislike the idea of any government-mandated paternal leave. Staying home from work is not free, and the cost of it comes out of my salary. I personally want some paternal leave even with its costs, but I'd prefer that negotiation to stay between me and my employer. I don't want some bottom threshold set by a third party.

How do you feel about the US' government mandated overtime laws?

The government mandated exempt employees? Just curious.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#198

Post by krastanov »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #177
socialdemocrat wrote: post #22

Good job Finland! Fellow Nordic here (Norwegian) and a dad. The father quota here in Norway made a huge social change. It really helped make it socially acceptable for dads to spend more time with their children. I noticed for my two sons how much of a difference it makes being around your kids when they are young. You cannot cannot substitute short time with "quality time." The amount of time you are there matters a…

>or independence. Why would you consider it to be an important goal for either parent to have "independence"? What is so wrong with being dependent on your spouse when raising children together that it should even come up as a consideration? Raising children well is hard enough and time consuming enough as it is. Why try to make it harder by also trying to make sure neither parent is dependent on the other?

I really do not understand the premise of your question. Yes, there is nothing wrong with one of the spouses being a home maker that is dependent on the monetary support of the professional spouse if this is what they want. But to turn your question around, what is so wrong with having other options!?

Of course at the end being in a relationship and having kids is a partnership and people should rely on one another, nobody ever argues against that. But when people want, they should have the option to do it in a new way, especially if that leads to more opportunities and happiness.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#199

Post by dfxm12 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #162

As an American, I find it hard to be patriotic about my country when my fellow citizens can’t muster up the political will to ensure any paid parental leave for most people. Edit: changed parental leave to paid parental leave

Well, there is a big election coming up. You can find out who is on the ballot, where they stand on this issue and pass the info along to the people in your area.

If someone isn't planning on having kids, they might not think it affects them, so be prepared to convince them otherwise, too.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#200

Post by radicalbyte »

gylterud wrote: post #109

When we had our first child (in Sweden), we could divide the time (13 months total) freely between the two of us. Then we got some extra money if each of us took more than 30% of that time. I think they stopped with the money bonus, but it was really great for us. We are now having our second child (now in Norway), and while the father quota is great, they now require the mother to be "in activity" (i.e. working) if…

This should be the norm in all of the developed world! As a freelancer I took a self-funded three-month break (it just finished) when our third child was born and it has been amazing. I wish that I'd been in a position to do the same for my other two children too.

Firstly, we're trying hard to close the gender pay gap. Giving fathers the same amount of free time as the mothers goes a long way here.

Secondly, it's fantastic for the father-baby bond and it makes both life and work as a young parent so much easier.

Thirdly, the cost is not large. Businesses are already absorbing the lost productivity caused by the fathers being exhausted. This formalizes it.

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