Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

iOS 13's Music App Sucks

samuelstevens.me

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 261 posts

Re: iOS 13's Music App Sucks

#191

Post by samatman »

pwinnski wrote: post #187
samatman wrote: post #185

This article prompted me to clean up my playlists, which have been 'append only' for quite a few years, and wow. What a disaster. First: swipe-from-right doesn't reveal a red delete button, like you'd expect. So I hit the search engine, discover you have to long-press to delete. Annoying, but okay, progress. Now, there are some albums on my Playlist page. Which is weird, and I don't remember putting them there. But w…

Yes, you can add a playlist to a playlist. I do it frequently. If you are playing an album and choose to save to a playlist, it gives that playlist the same name (and art) as the album. What else would it do? Deleting the playlist does not delete the album, why would it? I can definitely see your confusion, and I'm sure it could be better-designed. That said, I never have any issues, and playlists are my primary use…

Remove the Downloads removes the corresponding album, so I'm not inclined to find out if Delete from Library does the same thing.

Why wouldn't they call it "Delete Playlist"? And why does Remove the Downloads remove the underlying album, instead of the correct behavior, which is to remove the playlist from my phone but keep it in the cloud and my other devices?

This is bad no matter how you gloss it.

Re: iOS 13's Music App Sucks

#192

Post by prostheticvamp »

Hamuko wrote: post #176
oflannabhra wrote: post #8

I have an Apple Music subscription and use Apple Music (the app) daily. In this article, I hear a lot of "I". IMO, the big challenge with Apple Music is all the legacy that a) personal libraries, b) iTunes Match, and c) iTunes purchases all bring to the new streaming paradigm. Those are problems Apple has to solve, and can't just discard. Apple's customers have plowed tons of $$$ to "own" their libraries, and Apple i…

>all the legacy that a) personal libraries Since when did a personal library become legacy?

My nieces are mid-teens. They had CDs played to them for lullabies and the like when they were little. By the time they were old enough to want to play their own music, it came in the form of YouTube or streaming.

They’ve never ripped a CD, or bought an individual track for download. Two of them have no idea what a “file” is. The third thinks a “file” is some bygone shibboleth known only by dorks like their uncle.

They all have iPhones, of course. Two are on MacBooks. One has the airpods. None would be caught dead with a model more than one behind the current.

I’m willing to gamble they are more representative of apple’s target demo than you or I are.

Re: iOS 13's Music App Sucks

#193

Post by samatman »

samatman wrote: post #191
pwinnski wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can add a playlist to a playlist. I do it frequently. If you are playing an album and choose to save to a playlist, it gives that playlist the same name (and art) as the album. What else would it do? Deleting the playlist does not delete the album, why would it? I can definitely see your confusion, and I'm sure it could be better-designed. That said, I never have any issues, and playlists are my primary use…

Remove the Downloads removes the corresponding album, so I'm not inclined to find out if Delete from Library does the same thing. Why wouldn't they call it "Delete Playlist"? And why does Remove the Downloads remove the underlying album, instead of the correct behavior, which is to remove the playlist from my phone but keep it in the cloud and my other devices? This is bad no matter how you gloss it.

If I click Remove the Downloads on a playlist that isn't based on an album, is it going to remove those individual tracks from my phone?

When would that ever be the behavior that someone wants? Actions on a playlist should be limited to that playlist, this is UX 101 stuff.

Re: iOS 13's Music App Sucks

#194

Post by jedberg »

pb7 wrote: post #186
jedberg wrote: post #173

I've seen a couple of rants about Apple software here on HN the last few days. It's important to remember that Apple has never been very good at software services. Sometimes they make something good, but usually they make "just ok". Because they never had to be good. Their hardware was compelling enough that people just suffered through their software because they had to. But now they're trying to make money from the…

> Their hardware was compelling enough that people just suffered through their software because they had to. I couldn’t disagree more. Apple, from my understanding, is famously successful because they make both great hardware and great software. It’s the combination of both that made their hardware products sell like hot cakes. It’s the reason that year after year people keep complaining about the “Apple tax” on comp…

I said software services, not software. Every example you cited was their software, not their services.

iCloud vs. Dropbox. iTunes vs. Spotify. Apple Music vs. Spotify. Calendar vs. GCal or Outlook365. Mail vs. Gmail/365.

Apple Maps vs. Google Maps.

Pretty much any service that both Apple and Google make, Google does it better.

Re: iOS 13's Music App Sucks

#195

Post by proximitysauce »

pb7 wrote: post #186
jedberg wrote: post #173

I've seen a couple of rants about Apple software here on HN the last few days. It's important to remember that Apple has never been very good at software services. Sometimes they make something good, but usually they make "just ok". Because they never had to be good. Their hardware was compelling enough that people just suffered through their software because they had to. But now they're trying to make money from the…

> Their hardware was compelling enough that people just suffered through their software because they had to. I couldn’t disagree more. Apple, from my understanding, is famously successful because they make both great hardware and great software. It’s the combination of both that made their hardware products sell like hot cakes. It’s the reason that year after year people keep complaining about the “Apple tax” on comp…

Apple makes bad internet software. It’s ok at software that runs without any services but anything that requires internet access is a disaster.

Even their “good” software is only good if you use exactly how Apple wants.

Re: iOS 13's Music App Sucks

#196

Post by pwinnski »

samatman wrote: post #193
samatman wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remove the Downloads removes the corresponding album, so I'm not inclined to find out if Delete from Library does the same thing. Why wouldn't they call it "Delete Playlist"? And why does Remove the Downloads remove the underlying album, instead of the correct behavior, which is to remove the playlist from my phone but keep it in the cloud and my other devices? This is bad no matter how you gloss it.

If I click Remove the Downloads on a playlist that isn't based on an album, is it going to remove those individual tracks from my phone? When would that ever be the behavior that someone wants? Actions on a playlist should be limited to that playlist, this is UX 101 stuff.

That depends on what you've chosen for the setting related to that. If you 'Add songs to library when adding playlist,' then no, the songs/albums remain. Otherwise, the playlist is your only view to that music, and so removing it removes your only view.

I believe the default is not to add songs to your library when adding a playlist, so deleting the playlist removes your view.

Re: iOS 13's Music App Sucks

#197

Post by pb7 »

jedberg wrote: post #194
pb7 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their hardware was compelling enough that people just suffered through their software because they had to. I couldn’t disagree more. Apple, from my understanding, is famously successful because they make both great hardware and great software. It’s the combination of both that made their hardware products sell like hot cakes. It’s the reason that year after year people keep complaining about the “Apple tax” on comp…

I said software services, not software. Every example you cited was their software, not their services. iCloud vs. Dropbox. iTunes vs. Spotify. Apple Music vs. Spotify. Calendar vs. GCal or Outlook365. Mail vs. Gmail/365. Apple Maps vs. Google Maps. Pretty much any service that both Apple and Google make, Google does it better.

I noticed that, which is why I quoted what I did. You only have to “suffer” the software that is required to be run on the hardware because you don’t have a choice. For software services, you are free to choose from the market offerings whether you are on Apple hardware or not. You may have a great point about their software service selection but I disagree with your muddying the waters bringing their core software into the mix.

Re: iOS 13's Music App Sucks

#198

Post by luckycharms810 »

This article really struck a nerve with me. I've been going around trying to explain to people that the experience of listening to music has got progressively worse over the last 20 years.

* Discovery is back to being passive - recommendations come from the company that you are subscribed to.

* Quality is paid for separately - the subscription has a fee, your data has a separate fee.

* Quality is not guaranteed - it depends on your current internet connection.

* There are dead zones.

* Most apps I've used do a terrible job showing you only the downloaded music you have.

* Your available music is subject to the deals between record labels and subscription services.

* Subscription services aren't incentivized to house more obscure / old / rare / hard to find music.

* Music is siloed in to different subscription services. ( We are moving to a Showtime vs Starz vs HBO vs Netflix model )

What really gets me is that at the end of the day - going the legal route of a subscription service is truly only marginally better for artists.

Re: iOS 13's Music App Sucks

#199

Post by pb7 »

proximitysauce wrote: post #195
pb7 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their hardware was compelling enough that people just suffered through their software because they had to. I couldn’t disagree more. Apple, from my understanding, is famously successful because they make both great hardware and great software. It’s the combination of both that made their hardware products sell like hot cakes. It’s the reason that year after year people keep complaining about the “Apple tax” on comp…

Apple makes bad internet software. It’s ok at software that runs without any services but anything that requires internet access is a disaster. Even their “good” software is only good if you use exactly how Apple wants.

I would argue that iMessage is excellent. At no point have I wanted to use any of the alternatives in the many years of using it.

In any case, calling any of their services a disaster is disingenuous to begin with.

Re: iOS 13's Music App Sucks

#200

Post by jedberg »

pb7 wrote: post #197
jedberg wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said software services, not software. Every example you cited was their software, not their services. iCloud vs. Dropbox. iTunes vs. Spotify. Apple Music vs. Spotify. Calendar vs. GCal or Outlook365. Mail vs. Gmail/365. Apple Maps vs. Google Maps. Pretty much any service that both Apple and Google make, Google does it better.

I noticed that, which is why I quoted what I did. You only have to “suffer” the software that is required to be run on the hardware because you don’t have a choice. For software services, you are free to choose from the market offerings whether you are on Apple hardware or not. You may have a great point about their software service selection but I disagree with your muddying the waters bringing their core software i…

> For software services, you are free to choose from the market offerings whether you are on Apple hardware or not

Up until last year, if I wanted maps via CarPlay, I had to use Apple maps. Up until last year, if I wanted to sync passwords across devices, I had to use iCloud. Even today, if I click on an address, it goes to Apple maps. I have to jump through hoops to use Google Maps.

If you want to install apps, you must use the App store.

If you want to play music on your watch, you have to use Apple Music.

There are still plenty of places where Apple forces you to (or at least makes it very inconvenient not to) use their services. Most users aren't sophisticated enough to use anything but Apple Maps, Apple Music, iCloud, etc.

> You may have a great point about their software service selection but I disagree with your muddying the waters bringing their core software into the mix.

When did I bring their core software into the mix? I'm only talking about their services.

Post reply on HN