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Education and Men without Work

nationalaffairs.com

191–200 of 342 posts

Re: Education and Men without Work

#191
post #109
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be an unpopular opinion but the real issue (biologically) is that we don't need all the men. We only need a tiny percentage of men. So how societies sometimes dealt with this excess of men was to send a good number of them off to war. Also occupations used to be much more hazardous so many more die working. The days of bundling laggers up in a red coat and sending them off with a musket to make the queens em…

> This may be an unpopular opinion but the real issue (biologically) is that we don't need all the men. We only need a tiny percentage of men. Biologically a baby may be male or female at similar probability. I think your argument is flawed, as it implies that the only goal of males is to impregnate as many females as possible and nothing else.

That is the "goal" of dna as far as a non thinking entity can have a goal. It's deeper even then males and females. Dna that reproduces more frequently and consistently ends up dominating it's environment. How the dna accomplishes that is what changes, whether it's by reproducing in higher quantities, or making adaptations to have the organic payload carrying the dna get more opportunities to reproduce, or some other solution

Re: Education and Men without Work

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this why most people (incl. women) work? We work because we want to pay for food/water/shelter. Then past that we work for things that we want.

I mean clearly some people work for other reasons. Tom Brady still wants to play football at age 43 after achieving enough for two separate Hall of Fame careers. Meg Whitman is CEO of a new company even though her net worth is over $5 billion. They are doing it for other reasons.

Yes, that is why I said "past that, we do it for things we want."

In those cases, they are doing it for things they want to do. My point is it's not just a male phenomenon.

Re: Education and Men without Work

#193
post #86

I thought that government benefits in the US were shite? I can understand why European men might opt-out but I thought that you were basically dooming yourself to homelessness without a job in America. How are these men living?

I laugh when people make comments like “except in places like the US that don’t have a social safety net”.

A majority of the US federal budget is entitlement spending. And that doesn’t include state spending either.

Re: Education and Men without Work

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also not discussed is the impact of unlimited access to pornography for sexual gratification on the reduction in male desire to do things that traditionally would attract women.

Perhaps we should look toward legalization of prostitution to provide an alternative source of motivation for these young men to re-join the workforce.

That would be same as porn? Cheaper than a relationship and no need to make yourself attractive to a mate.

Re: Education and Men without Work

#195
post #42

There's a very weird "let them eat cake" attitude in this thread which I find distressing. The study reports on the millions of working age men in the US who are essentially too depressed and face too many obstacles to search for work. Instead, they're spending their days staying inside, getting high, and playing video games. They essentially have little to no chance to pursue romantic relationships. Many of them eve…

I don't think people will care until the issue has become large enough that it will start impacting others in society indirectly. Eg not enough tax revenue being generated or not enough men willing to fight in a war.

I would wager that a lot of the people wasting time playing video games all day are precisely the ones who would benefit most from serving in the armed forces. Traditionally that is probably where a lot of them would have ended up.

Re: Education and Men without Work

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come join us in the D development effort. We have plenty of productive things to do that will push you past your limits. This kind of work is also good for giving your career a boost - this has happened to many on the D team.

This sounds interesting. Can you give any more information?

The web site is dlang.org, the source tree is https://github.com/dlang

Just hang out in the forums forum.dlang.org for a while and you'll get sense of what's going.

If you're ambitious, internally motivated, don't need to be micro-managed, and are a crackerjack programmer, you'll be welcome.

Re: Education and Men without Work

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bite - what do you propose modern societies do? The world has changed and is changing more rapidly every year. Folks on this forum (me included) spend our days thinking of ways to remove humans from work. Now, if there is no work and the only possible value a person can have is tied to work then what do people who are automated do precisely?

@theflyinghorse, Thank you. To begin, it's not about what they DO, it's about what they'll GET. First, we need to acknowledge that we have a hole to dig ourselves out of, this is a societal issue. The pendulum has swung far into the liberal side, and it was originally for a good purpose. It was to stop taking a shit on the weak. Except the pendulum is now parallel to ground-level, and we're glorifying the weak. Trump…

Is there a specific country that you think has the kind of culture you think the US should emulate?

Re: Education and Men without Work

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The relationships between men and women have changed. The relationship of the economy to individuals has changed. >Well, if only women would return home, there would be more lucrative jobs for men, and more need for the women to be taken care of by a man". That ship has sailed Worth noting that the current changes are explicitly counter to traditional roles which have existed for thousands of years. Yes, appeal sole…

So... what do you want? A government program to promote the joys of being a housewife? Do you really think that will move the needle on a systemic socioeconomic issue? Or would you rather see an authoritarian solution? I'm sure that will go over well. Keep in mind regardless of what you want as a woman, there's very real economic risk to being dependent on a man. Wanting to live a happy life as a housewife doesn't pu…

>So... what do you want? A government program to promote the joys of being a housewife? Do you really think that will move the needle on a systemic socioeconomic issue?

Not at all. I would like to see policy makers back away from the nonsensical notion that lack of gender parity across industry is indicative of a broken society, and stop pushing young women aggressively into STEM and leadership roles and encouraging industry to effectively set quotas.

>Keep in mind regardless of what you want as a woman, there's very real economic risk to being dependent on a man. Wanting to live a happy life as a housewife doesn't put food on the table when he loses his job and doesn't pay rent when he divorces you. It doesn't make life any easier when you find he has a mistress but you don't have the means to leave him

Sure, those are legitimate risks, but as other commenters have pointed out there are ways around them. But what people fail to consider is that there is stress associated with the rat race, particularly if someone is pushed into a role unsuited for them, either by cultural or economic pressure.

>And this is all assuming the man even makes enough on his own to pay for the family. Many households simply require two paychecks in today's economy, and what you want as an individual will be trumped by the cost of rent every time.

As I've mentioned, besides globalization, I think the largest contributor to the dual breadwinner requirement is the cultural push by liberal policy makers to get women working. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say.

>Meanwhile, for those who are in the money with well-paying careers and considering quitting work to settle down, the opportunity cost of leaving behind your career is enormous

A problem neatly solved by specialization of home roles, though there's no reason a man can't stay home to take care of the kids. The main issue here is that a vocal minority has taken hold of policy with flawed assumptions which consider neither human nature nor unintended effects, and we're dealing with the fallout.

>I happen to agree that there's nothing wrong and nothing subservient with being a housewife. But to sum up such a complicated and vast socioeconomic development as merely "shaming two or so Western generations into believing that the life of a housewife is menial and subservient" is patently ridiculous.

Do you disagree that two generations of feminist ideology have structured educational and industrial policy such that women are strongly discouraged from child rearing? If not, where do you expect the demand and funds for all of that extra labor to come from when the fundamental needs of society are more or less unchanged? Sure, there are other geopolitical influences on wages and life outcomes, but this is a major and understudied driver.

Re: Education and Men without Work

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think you make some fair points, did you really need to be so adversarial and self-righteous? I wonder to what extent such a delivery neuters productive discussion.

Ah, you inadvertently hit the crux of the issue with your question. You see, diplomacy is a tool for maintaining the peaceful status quo. It is a tool for conflict resolution with little variability in the outcome. Countries build nuclear weapons so they may level the playing field, in order for diplomacy to be an effective tool. Otherwise, you will be stepped on. The sophisticated, well-spoken man is he who already…

Brah. Most jobs are hot garbage right now and video games at least give you tangible goals and rewards.

You don't have to be some Uber man to be happy in life, and even if you are super masculine you still will choose the path that feels best. If for whatever reason you're stuck in a place where you have to put in years of effort for a small chance that you might have a better life vs taking a non ideal but still acceptable life right now, why would you take the risk?

Re: Education and Men without Work

#200
post #14

This story really needs another graph showing "NOT-IN-LABOR FORCE RATES FOR WOMEN AGES 25-54; 1965 TO 2019". See https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2016/images/hipple-fig6.png It appears that the non-participation rate for women is about twice as high as for men.

But that’s not really anything new or unusual, is it? Women have always stayed home to look after children more often than men.

not just looking after children, also as caregivers for elderly parents
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