Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison • Hacker News Board

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#191

Post by cies » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

fenomas wrote: post #166

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

The most detailed, nuanced account of Assange I've seen is this one[0] by Andrew O'Hagan (an author hired to ghostwrite Assange's autobiography who spent a year or so in and out of his orbit). And it's hard to square that account with the image of Assange as a journalist who's being persecuted for the truths he's shared. Though O'Hagan is sympathetic in many ways he doesn't sugarcoat anything, and I came away with th…

We're discussing the torture of a journalist in the west. Adn you bring up a story that you think he lied to often. Now I assume you are right and I think that stains his character.

But, I think this is kind of hard to swallow at this point. I know you respond to someone else comment, and not directly to the story. But in this light i think it is not time to discuss if Assange lied at some point. The man deserves a fair trial, and some nobel prizes for the good stuff he did. Before Wikileaks we were some tin-foil hat /r/conspiracy readers. And now "deep state" a term you find in the MSM. Big progress necessary on the way to fix this mess, yet Assange's life got destroyed in the process.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#192

Post by Lammy » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

chx wrote: post #184

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

What journalist? Assange is a Russian agent. Even previously there was no doubt but since Mueller this is cemented.

Declaring who is and is not a valid journalist is not a path we, or any society, should go down.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#193

Post by SherlockeHolmes » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:29 PM UTC

The discussion here is a reminder of how sufficiently competent people can defend to death a narrative that is logically consistent enough and has some form of "majority acknowledgment" for the sources of that narrative.

I want to remind us that rarely do enough credible (according to some formal and stringent definition) evidences exist for a given topic for an observer to make a conclusion with the kind of confidence we often display while remonstrating on these issues.

Specifically: it is naive to adopt a conclusive tone involving a person without liberty for over a decade, and possibly undergoing forms of punishment without due trial. I suspect not one of us here is trained enough in Law and have access to enough TRUE information to come to a judgment. If so, we are guilty of engaging in and spreading careless commentaries made about a case that combines possible human rights violation (its abundance in current time does not make this any less serious of a concern) with possible government interference in defining what constitutes journalism.

I want to leave you with this last thought - in majority cases in history, it has been profitable for the public to challenge the government on its policies, rather than to trust in its foresightedness and integrity.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#194

Post by Lammy » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

CrazyStat wrote: post #118

mike_hock wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that he's being poisoned to death with sedatives suggests that at least his adversaries believe so.

I'm not remotely convinced of that "fact" at this point.

Sorry, would you clarify? It’s unclear what part of that statement you are questioning.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#195

Post by cies » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

raindeer3 wrote: post #161

jacobush wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to be very exact in these matters. The problem with the rape charges is that very, very likely he would have been convicted under Swedish law, which is very strict on what counts as rape. (If proof could be produced.) What is a farce is how the case went on and on, and how the plaintiffs didn't even seem to want to hang on the to case, and how a crime which is routinely buried in cold cases by Swedish Police…

It never became a top priority for the Swedish state. But since he fled to the Ecuadorian embassy the investigation just dragged on. This was never a high priority case other than for the press. And as soon as he could be inteterogated the investigation was closed. He is and has been mistreated in may ways, but the accusations of sexual assault in Sweden was not part of some US lead conspiracy against him.

> the accusations of sexual assault in Sweden was not part of some US lead conspiracy against him.

What makes you so sure of this?

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#196

Post by Jon_Lowtek » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

JoeSmithson wrote: post #133

Jon_Lowtek wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "news" part is that he had a phone call with a friend. Primary source is the friend (Vaughan Smith). It's on his Twitter: https://twitter.com/VaughanSmith/status/1210278654615474176 For the torture part, which is not news, please see The United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture: https://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?N... Primary Source for the cited open letter https://medium.com/@doctors…

There doesn't appear to be any reliable evidence that Assange is being held in solitary confinement. The original source for this seems to be his father, who claimed several months ago that he was being held in solitary for "up to" 23 hours a day. There have been photos leaked by another person showing Assange looking relaxed interacting with other inmates. The leaker claimed that Assange was popular among the other…

I do not want to argue with you if the opinion of the leading UN expert in this matter is based on enough hard evidence. The important thing is:

The United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture (and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment) visited Mr. Assange with a medical team and then wrote an appeal to the UK Government. The UK government should react with a prompt and impartial investigation. They did not do that. The did not even answer the question of the United Nations Special Rapporteur.

That by itself, no matter if Mr. Assange was subjected to torture, is non compliance with international rules.

Given Brexit this level of "we do not care about international rules and we do not accept the UN as an authority" is unsurprising. IMHO a western nation like the UK ignoring a member of the OHCHR is very worrisome. It shows that the UK government has little interest to participate in the trend towards "good governance".

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#197

Post by jacobush » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

jp555 wrote: post #80

m-p-3 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse, they thrive on scandals.

Chaos is a ladder, unless you're a theorist. To theorists chaos is destruction (of their precious models). To practitioners chaos is a ladder. Those with real Skin In the Game. Economist vs. Trader.

Precious models like “standards” and “semblance of moral code”. :-:

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#198

Post by oh_sigh » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #167

foldr wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you couldn't be extradited from Ireland for being gay because it's not illegal to be gay in Ireland. It has to be a crime in both countries. But in general, questions of jurisdiction are complicated. They're settled by courts, not by what people say on the internet.

If it was illegal in both countries, I wouldn’t need to be extradited since I was gay in Ireland too. Assange isn’t being accused of things that are criminal in the UK.

If you really want to follow this thread, it isn't illegal to be gay in Saudi Arabia, it is only illegal to commit homosexual acts.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#199

Post by ben_w » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

scient wrote: post #43

plutonorm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarians emphasise the fact he broke laws, everyone else appreciates the moral act.

What moral act? Working for Russia and helping them push their agenda - willingly or out of ignorance? You are blind if you thing Assange and Wikileaks was some kind of a knight for truth.

It is possible for multiple things to all be true. I see no contradiction between the following:

1. Assange helped reveal severe wrongdoings by various governments.

2. Assange engaged in unprotected sexual activity with two women that violated the scope of their consent, because they only consented to protected sex, and also because one woman was asleep in one case. This would have also been illegal in the UK.

3. No prosecution would have been attempted if Assange has not already made political enemies.

4. Russia made hay while the sun was shining by using Assange as a conduit to publish dirt they wanted published.

5. Assange definitely and unambiguously broke UK law by fleeing to the Ecuadorean embassy.

6. The fact that the UK would not allow Assange to depart the Ecuadorian embassy was condemned by the UN as indefinite detention without trial.

7. The current condition of Assange is really suspicious and makes the UK look bad.

(Which of these are actually true is for someone more qualified than I am, but they are all compatible.)

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#200

Post by buckminster » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

INGELRII wrote: post #45

plutonorm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarians emphasise the fact he broke laws, everyone else appreciates the moral act.

It's not mutually exclusive. * Sometimes individuals must break the law for greater good. This is called civil disobedience, or civil resistance. * Just because one is breaking the law for common good, civil servants can't and should not be expected to stop enforcing the law. If you allow that, it's the end of the rule of law based society. The whole idea of just society is that you restrict what individuals in the g…

And this is why there were hundreds of prosecutions in both America and the UK of the perpetrators of America's post-9/11 kidnap, torture and murder program.

Except there weren't. The attachment of authoritarians to the rule of law is merely a posture. They set it aside whenever it suits them to. They could set it aside in this case.