Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#191

Post by s1artibartfast » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 9:44 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #179

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #31

> ...the company’s upcoming pricing algorithms, which they hinted might be able to more precisely predict what riders might be willing to pay for a ride. I hate the whole idea of this. If they track you around, maybe realize you order from fancy places on uber eats, then they will raise prices on something that costs them the same. There's something that strikes me as especially awful about automating the "how much i…

Everything about modern pricing theory -- from menu design to coupons to sales to promo codes advertised only to specific markets -- is about getting people who can pay more, to pay more, while still making a little bit of money on those can only afford the bare minimum. A millenium ago when you bought everything haggling in the market, the rich guy was paying 3x as much as everyone else because the vendors knew they…

I tend to agree, but think that there is a line somewhere where it become price gouging.

What if Lyft or uber have data that you have a flight to catch, are 9 months pregnant, or disabled?

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#192

Post by clairity » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

stereolambda wrote: post #60

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #31

> ...the company’s upcoming pricing algorithms, which they hinted might be able to more precisely predict what riders might be willing to pay for a ride. I hate the whole idea of this. If they track you around, maybe realize you order from fancy places on uber eats, then they will raise prices on something that costs them the same. There's something that strikes me as especially awful about automating the "how much i…

You're presenting a future where there is (in the limit) no point in earning money. Lately there was a discussion about how in the future it makes no sense to buy insurance if someone is willing to sell it to you, you are always better off saving and you won't get insured if you actually need it[0]. I understand all these specific scenarios may be kinda-dismissed with some commonsensical argumentation, but has someon…

you're grossly underestimating the absolute ingenuity of 7-10 billion people jostling against each other for status. even if people were taxed such that net income was exactly the same for everyone, higher earners would still try to claim superior status from it.

and that theoretical limit of perfect, simultaneous, accurate information is akin to the heat death of the universe, and really not worth practical (as opposed to theoretical) discussion. for all practical purposes, at the very least there are rate limits related to the propogation of and reaction to perfect info, not to mention all the ways people will actively obstruct it.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#193

Post by ghaff » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 9:48 PM UTC

esoterica wrote: post #171

blhack wrote: post #146

Here’s how I wish Uber pricing worked: When I hail a ride, I say: I’m going from A to B and am willing to pay C (which Uber can recommend to me) for it. Now if nobody responds, I increase C until they do. This way the drivers know where they are going, how much I’m paying, etc. When a driver “accepts” a ride, I see their vehicle and rating, and get to choose from the people who have accepted. And on the other end, th…

Drivers usually accept new rides while in the middle of driving though. Do you really want an army of distracted drivers on their phones participating in a complicated bidding process?

And, for those relatively unusual occasions where I do take Uber, I probably have zero interest in entering into an online bidding competition. And do you really want a system where you're trying to save a few dollars by getting a bid accepted by the most financially desperate drivers?

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#194

Post by davidgay » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 9:49 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #179

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #31

> ...the company’s upcoming pricing algorithms, which they hinted might be able to more precisely predict what riders might be willing to pay for a ride. I hate the whole idea of this. If they track you around, maybe realize you order from fancy places on uber eats, then they will raise prices on something that costs them the same. There's something that strikes me as especially awful about automating the "how much i…

Everything about modern pricing theory -- from menu design to coupons to sales to promo codes advertised only to specific markets -- is about getting people who can pay more, to pay more, while still making a little bit of money on those can only afford the bare minimum. A millenium ago when you bought everything haggling in the market, the rich guy was paying 3x as much as everyone else because the vendors knew they…

> Foreigners visiting China pay much, much much more than locals.

Some years ago, I had an epiphany on the reverse-equivalent of this: foreigners visiting Switzerland pay exactly the same as locals. And it has pretty much the same effect.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#195

Post by tehjoker » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 9:53 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #179

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #31

> ...the company’s upcoming pricing algorithms, which they hinted might be able to more precisely predict what riders might be willing to pay for a ride. I hate the whole idea of this. If they track you around, maybe realize you order from fancy places on uber eats, then they will raise prices on something that costs them the same. There's something that strikes me as especially awful about automating the "how much i…

Everything about modern pricing theory -- from menu design to coupons to sales to promo codes advertised only to specific markets -- is about getting people who can pay more, to pay more, while still making a little bit of money on those can only afford the bare minimum. A millenium ago when you bought everything haggling in the market, the rich guy was paying 3x as much as everyone else because the vendors knew they…

This principle only makes sense if the contributions are funding a common service with a fixed cost. If there is no upper bound on the maximum cost, as is true of corporate profiteering, it is merely extraction with none of the progressive overtones as there is no longer a relationship between what you pay and the common good.

This ignores that ubers and lyfts are a bandaid on our abysmal public transit and are a play by the wealthy to corner the transportation market until they can jack up the price for their own benefit.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#196

Post by ben_jones » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 9:53 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #179

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #31

> ...the company’s upcoming pricing algorithms, which they hinted might be able to more precisely predict what riders might be willing to pay for a ride. I hate the whole idea of this. If they track you around, maybe realize you order from fancy places on uber eats, then they will raise prices on something that costs them the same. There's something that strikes me as especially awful about automating the "how much i…

Everything about modern pricing theory -- from menu design to coupons to sales to promo codes advertised only to specific markets -- is about getting people who can pay more, to pay more, while still making a little bit of money on those can only afford the bare minimum. A millenium ago when you bought everything haggling in the market, the rich guy was paying 3x as much as everyone else because the vendors knew they…

> A millenium ago when you bought everything haggling in the market, the rich guy was paying 3x as much as everyone else because the vendors knew they could make him. Meanwhile, the impoverished grandmother gets the unsold leftovers for free. (The specifics obviously are made-up, but you get the gist. It's still the same in much of the world today. Foreigners visiting China pay much, much much more than locals.)

Did he though? Or did he send his servant to the market for him and chastise the servant if ever he over-payed by a penny or more?

It's a real stretch to try to add a moral imperative to Uber's price gauging. Speaking of historical references, why don't we mention Uber's history alongside this rich old man of yours?

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#197

Post by pmoriarty » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #45

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #31

> ...the company’s upcoming pricing algorithms, which they hinted might be able to more precisely predict what riders might be willing to pay for a ride. I hate the whole idea of this. If they track you around, maybe realize you order from fancy places on uber eats, then they will raise prices on something that costs them the same. There's something that strikes me as especially awful about automating the "how much i…

Couldn’t this technically qualify as discrimination? I vaguely remember reading about how one of the big dating apps increased prices with a user’s age, but had to revert the policy because it amounted to age discrimination. I would hope income qualifies for the same protection, but maybe not.

This is exactly what the rich need: more protection.

They're just so unfairly treated in the rest of society. It would be so unfair if Uber also discriminated against them.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#198

Post by davidgay » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

ikeboy wrote: post #174

john-radio wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Therefore, if the rate is higher for some people, it's either insufficiently disincentivizing poorer people from speeding, or excessively disincentivizing richer people. I don't understand how you reached this conclusion. > Speeding has a constant negative effect on society. It doesn't vary based on how wealthy the speeder is. The point of a speeding ticket isn't to make things right or to make amends for the bad e…

Yes, if you value doing something more than the negative value to society, you should be permitted to do it. This is the entire point of pigovian taxes.

The trick here is to apply the golden rule and adjust the negative-value (an average-stranger's death) to the equivalent value applied to you (apparently-rich-stranger's death). Then you'll realise the cost of the fine needs to increase proportionally to your wealth (no, I'm not actually a fan of valuing people by their wealth, but you seem to be implicitly arguing for that).

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#199

Post by ghaff » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 9:57 PM UTC

taytus wrote: post #140

randyrand wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And walking everywhere will become the norm?

Not necessarily, cheap rides are the only competitive advantage both of them have. More and more companies without the massive VC support Uber and Lyft have will pop up fragmenting the market.

Right now, I take them because most of the time they're more convenient than cabs. (The one common exception is departing from airports when a line of cabs is right there. I also pre-book cars to and from my home airport.)

That said, absent their price advantages because of subsidies, I don't doubt a more fragmented market would probably arise.

Re: Uber and Lyft Suggest the Days of Cheap Rides Could Be Over

#200

Post by Jedi72 » Sat, Dec 14, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

Hopefully this bullshit opens up a new market for digital obfustication services. Pay me $100, I will show you how to save $300/yr in Uber fees by changing your digital appearance.