hmm this was the case Ontario, Canada. I am curious if they are counting people exiting job market or simply looking at unemployment rates. Personally I can certainly see how a small business can become unprofitable when forced to raise wages with it's employees simply disappearing off the market and stats due to skills/opportunities mismatch.
Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
191–200 of 381 posts
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#192It is a bit fast to claim that rich and full employment cities raising their minimum wage have no adverse effect, while it might have just compensated cost of living raising too.
The article only focuses on the fact that proponents of the status quo are proved wrong so far, but only scratches the other side of the coin that clearly says these results don't mean raising to absurd levels would have no adverse effect.
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me this is still positive. If one was making 40h x $10 and now does 31h x $13, it means the person has more time to invest in oneself,maybe do some community college course or whatever. I'd be more than happy if my CEO would give me Fridays off instead of giving a pay rise.
It might work out for you personally but it still doesn't address the issue of not making a living wage. If their weekly paycheck isn't any more than it was, they're still coming up short on their monthly expenses.
Yes,I'm not disputing that, however it then becomes possible to find a second job,or some side gig. Also, I'm not sure I follow the logic of reduced hours.For instance, a company employs 10 people full time.Then the state hikes up the min wage and suddenly thy all cost 10% more to the company.If the company reduces the headcount,it also reduces its productivity if nothing else changes, so it ends up costing even more to the company. Am I missing something?
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#194We should peg minimum wage to some multiple of the 5 year rolling average of per-capita GDP.
Peg it so full time hours is 3x the local 1br apartment rent, then it would make a difference for so many people currently working 60-80 weeks to live paycheck to paycheck, unable to save enough to even afford the proportionally massive upfront cost of moving to a cheaper area.
Ha. 3x the local 1br apartment rent would put minimum wage higher than my current salary as a software engineer in the bay area (granted, I'm a government software engineer, not a FAANG software engineer). I don't know how many localities this would work for, but given the comically high wage (~$55/hr) you would get in many bay area cities, I'm guessing it's not many.
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it is difficult, then it's not a very good business. Serious question: Why would you want to run a business that can only survive by paying people poverty wages?
This is a very naive view of economics. Ideally everyone's income should be derived from the value they generate. So ideally wages continue to rise because productivity continues to rise. But there are many cases where it make more sense to pay 4 low skilled workers to do a job instead of paying the costs of automation plus the cost of the higher skilled worker to use the automated solution. It's why so many jobs in…
> Ideally everyone's income should be derived from the value they generate.
This utterly breaks down at the upper end of income, so why is everyone gnashing their teeth about keeping it intact at the bottom end?
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Countries with a social-democratic (Sweden, Norway) or conservative-corporatist (Germany) welfare state traditionally do not have minimum wage laws, because relatively strong unions and a somewhat robust social safety net have the same effect - you won't find someone willing to work for less than social security benefits which creates a lower bound. As soon as these states move towards a more liberal welfare model (U…
Norway have selective regulation, mandatory minimum wages in certain trades and low income occupations.
> minimum wages in certain trades
My understanding is that these come from private agreements, not legislation. Are you saying that there are a handful of industries where there is actual legislation?
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
If medical costs increase more than the amount of general inflation's effect on both medical costs and the rest of wages, than covering those increasing costs while holding the rest of wages constant is a wage increase. If you don't like that, it's a social issue and a policy question, but it's not evidence what wage (how much employer is paying for employee benefits) is stagnant or droppiing.
If the workers aren't getting it in their paycheck it is not a wage increase. It is simply another tax, neither the employer nor the employee benefit from it so who exactly is this benefit for?
Worse, it’s a regressive tax.
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
Norway have selective regulation, mandatory minimum wages in certain trades and low income occupations.
> minimum wages in certain trades My understanding is that these come from private agreements, not legislation. Are you saying that there are a handful of industries where there is actual legislation?
No. You can't say legally employ a cleaner for less than their occupation minimum wage. They don't have to negotiate for it or be in a union, either.
https://www.arbeidstilsynet.no/en/working-conditions/pay-and...
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
He's not arguing with Axios facts. He's saying the fact that Illinois is gradually ramping to a $15 statewide minimum is not evidence that a $15 minimum is nationally appropriate, because the economy of Illinois is not the same as the economy of Kansas or Wyoming. It also obviously factual that the prevailing lowest livable wage in NYC is higher than that of Des Moines; NYC's statutory minimum should be higher than D…
>He's saying the fact that Illinois is gradually ramping to a $15 statewide minimum is not evidence that a $15 minimum is nationally appropriate, because the economy of Illinois is not the same as the economy of Kansas or Wyoming. Plus, its not even $15 dollars yet. It's $8.25 right now. You can't even get illegal immigrants to work for that under the table in rural Illinois. But I have doubts whether the entire stat…
> A lot of Illinois is poorer than Des Moines.
I think they hope the poors and the rurals will move out to seek employment, at least, that's the impression I get from some Illinoisans.
Re: Job loss predictions over rising minimum wages haven't come true
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm old enough to remember this conversation happening three times, and wise enough to know that this conversation happens every ten years or so probably since the first wage was paid in currency instead of goods. A certain pay rate creates supply. Conditions make it hard to switch jobs. And every year you ever so slowly reduce the effective pay to those employees and they slowly give up little luxuries to make ends…
Let me rephrase that last sentence for what you are meaning it as "If you call this class warfare instead of unintended consequences, in my opinion, you are being paranoid or cynical." Neither "paranoid" nor "cynical" are absolute terms to base your argument on.
I picked my phrasing carefully.
As the old saying goes, "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."
Actively plotting this outcome? That's a movie plot, sure. But negligence - even willful negligence - and microaggression? We know this happens all the time.