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Why is everyone a bank?

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Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that whoever disrupts banking will do it the Uber way, by disregarding all the laws that they are required to follow and trying to claim not to be what they actually are, with the same eventual success this route has had for Uber.

Uber is succeeding? Its finances don't think so.

[deleted]

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#192
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So curious how he banks there make money?

For individual mass market the big driver is loan margins, both for home mortgages and various short-term loans. But the improvement in payments was mostly driven by legislation (e.g. the Payment Services Directive from 2007 with most of implementation at 2012) without which banks were quite happy to offer payments as slow and expensive as they could as it was too profitable for the industry to voluntarily agree to d…

With 1.6% interest rates for mortgages... I don't know how dutch banks make money.

They sell insurance and offer consumer investment accounts -- which are not permitted for us citizens!

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#193
post #4

Another answer: because regular banks are awful to deal with. They don't have nice APIs to just move money around. They apply velocity limits at surprising times. They can terminate your account suddenly for opaque reasons. They charge high regular fees and even higher "gotcha" fees if you make a mistake. They can take back money sent to you for up to 90 days, but often can't get back money you sent to crooks even if…

This 100%. I work at a fintech that's not a bank. Instead, we integrate with people who integrate with banks--we've basically got one middleman per continent (except a few). It's awful. Rather than having to figure out the regulatory details of each jurisdiction so that we can be compliant, we instead have to figure out the regulatory details of each jurisdiction so that we can trick whichever middleman into being co…

I don’t know if it is specific to banks but there is a common pattern I have seen among internal developers: not only a complete lack of curiosity to understand finance, the underlying business, but an active resistance to any attempt to explain them. They want the numbers to be data, and don’t want to have to know anything about this data, and be told exactly what to do with it and they will code it up.

I am sure there are exceptions, but my point is if you talk to someone who understand what is going on in a bank, you would be extremely lucky that this person also can code.

This is slowly changing as I see an increasing number of junior bankers who are also interested in picking up coding skills. They won’t be developers per se but will certainly become technically literate interlocutors. But it will take some time.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#194
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t access to that financial data extremely well regulated? I’ve often thought of launching a credit card company solely for access to people’s transaction data. That provides tremendous insight into many companies turnovers allowing to anticipate earnings.

Not regulated well enough, imo, MasterCard is already willing to sell data to these same actors: https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/30/17801880/google-mastercar...

Half of Visa's, and MasterCard's business model is selling payment flow. This isn't some novel development for these processors - they've been doing it for decades.

Shockingly enough, people don't care enough to shred all their credit cards! Even people who tend to get outraged on the internet about these sorts of things still have, and use at least one.

(And before someone brings up that EU is not heavy on credit cards - the function of European debit cards in this space is not one whit different from that of a credit card.)

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#195
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Fidelity allow you to deposit cash?

"Integrated cash management" (a debit card, etc) is abundantly available from discount brokerages, and is systemically important to their businesses. Fidelity legally can't call it a checking account so they call it a Cash Management Account; brokerages that own banks (Schwab, etc) just call it checking.

You did not answer my question. As far as I can see, the Fidelity CMA allows you to withdraw cash using their debit card, but I see no way to deposit cash. Nor does it provide features like cashier's check.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#196
I think the article more or less nailed it, but the topic probably deserves journalistic attention of the kind journalists complain no longer exists.

The basic "fintech" startup theory is fairly reasonable:

(1) financial services have a lot of fat and/or profit.

(2) financial services is/should be a tech subsector. Debit/credit cards, current accounts & such are nearly commodities, one is as good as another. Apart from customer service, UX is all that differentiates them^, from a meaningful subset of customers. That's software.

(3) The competition is soft. Many banks have terrible consumer facing software, for example. Many have costly legacy structures.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The traditional banking system is about 150 years old by now. Increasingly, it seems to serve a smaller segment of society, regardless of its half-hearted attempts at innovation. I have a number of friends working in finance. Lovely people. Absolutely arrogant, though, when it comes to the question of whether their industry will face non-trivial disuption. Maybe Google and other current tech giants will not be the on…

I'm pretty sure that whoever disrupts banking will do it the Uber way, by disregarding all the laws that they are required to follow and trying to claim not to be what they actually are, with the same eventual success this route has had for Uber.

Financial crime is something that is heavily enforced on an (inter)national scale.

Local transportation violations aren't enforced in quite the same way.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#200
post #4

Another answer: because regular banks are awful to deal with. They don't have nice APIs to just move money around. They apply velocity limits at surprising times. They can terminate your account suddenly for opaque reasons. They charge high regular fees and even higher "gotcha" fees if you make a mistake. They can take back money sent to you for up to 90 days, but often can't get back money you sent to crooks even if…

> They can terminate your account suddenly for opaque reasons.

This happens more often with "bank" startups than with old, boring, regular ones.

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