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My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

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Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#191

Post by Rotareti »

angrygoat wrote: post #79
marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

The big gap is management of the full dependency tree. With yarn I can get a package.lock which pretty well ensures I'll have the same exact version of everything, with no unexpected changes, every time I run yarn install. I get the same thing in the Rust world with Cargo. In Python it's a mess. Some packages specify their deps in setup.py; some in a requirements file, which may or may not be read in by their setup.p…

There are two new tools in the Python ecosystem, which try to fill the gap left by cargo, npm, yarn & co.:

One is pipenv [0], which works similar to yarn & co. It uses Pipfile/Pipfile.lock to define and lock dependencies. Pipenv has a major flaw: It can't be used to publish packages on pypi.org (you still need twine & setup.py for that). It's also known for being slow and somewhat buggy. Despite all that pipenv is an "official" tool maintained by the "Python Packaging Authority".

The other one is poetry [1], which works exactly like yarn & co. It uses "pyproject.toml" to specify dependencies and "poetry.lock" to lock them. Poetry does most of the things "right", but it's still an underdog compared to pipenv.

Both tools have not yet fully matured, thus there are a lot of complaints.

[0]: https://github.com/pypa/pipenv

[1]: https://github.com/sdispater/poetry

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#193

Post by slig »

f4stjack wrote: post #122

Eeeehhh I think I will be downvoted to hell and back for this but after I read the article I had the feeling of "why are you making this feel more complex than it needs to be?" I mean compared to Java and C# I have a MUCH MORE EASIER time to set up my development environment. Installing Python, if I am on a Windows box I mean, is enough to satisfy a lot of the requirements. I then clone the repo of the project and so…

> "why are you making this feel more complex than it needs to be?"

Because it's more complex if you have projects on multiple Python versions and if you want to lock your Python packages to specific versions. (Pip can bite you when different packages have different requirements for the same lib).

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#195

Post by slig »

nsomaru wrote: post #109

I’ve been manually deploying my projects for years. Can anyone comment on the Docker learning & troubleshooting story for python?

Start with `docker` and learn the basics concepts: difference between image and container, layers, etc. Copy a Python `Dockerfile` and see that it works. After a while you'll get the hang of it and will be able to know what to google and how to navigate the docker manual. Pythonspeed.com has some good protips once you understand the basics.

You'll get confident and from there learning `docker-compose` is a breeze.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#197

Post by cosmic_quanta »

eivarv wrote: post #196

Why not just use conda for envs and deps (or env-specific pip), and install youtube-dl etc. via your platform's package manager?

In my experience, conda breaks quite often. Most recently, conda has changed the location where it stores DLLs (e.g. for PyQt), which broke pyinstaller-based workflows.

In principle, it's a good idea; in practice, I'm not satisfied. On Windows, it's an easy solution, especially for packages that depend on non-python dependencies (e.g. hdf5).

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#198

Post by ghostwriter »

behnamoh wrote: post #36
marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

And not just Python, try writing a small script in Haskell or Clojure and you'll see how much burden there is to setup their environments.

In Haskell that would be (given Stack is not shipped with your OS's package manager, which is extremely rare):

  $ curl -sSL https://get.haskellstack.org/ | sh
  $ stack install turtle

  $ cat >> ./hello.hs
With Nix it would be even simpler.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#199

Post by workthrowaway »

lone_haxx0r wrote: post #32
marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

Yes. As someone who has never dove deep into python, but has had some contact with it: the package manager ecosystem is the #1 thing keeping me away from it. npm sucks and all, but at least it just works and doesn't get in my way as much.

> npm sucks and all, but at least it just works and doesn't get in my way as much.

used many package managers: pip, gem, go, npm, composer, etc... npm is the only one i have recent memories of having to kill & the only one that makes the fan go off (well okay most c/c++ do that too...)

quite frankly surprised by what i am seeing about python here. i have never been into the new stuff, pipenv, poetry, pipx, etc... maybe that's where the bad experience is coming from? i even don't know when and why it got so complex...

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#200

Post by Chris2048 »

Rotareti wrote: post #183
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Python. Throughout my life I tried learning many languages, and Python is the only one that really stuck, and was able to do useful things. Learning Python changed my life, in 5 years my salary more than doubled, and for the last 5 years I've been a full time developer. A coworker likes to say that I think in Python. That said, I 100% agree. I don't have the answer, except that I wish that there was one offici…

> and is there maybe a way to come up with a unified language dependency manger? For interpreter/compiler version management you can use asdf [0]. It works for all popular programming languages. You can use it to replace tools such as pyenv, nvm, gvm, etc. [0]: https://asdf-vm.com/#/

There is no link to asdf ( "[0]" ) in your comment
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