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Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

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Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#191

Post by beyondcompute »

older wrote: post #184
beyondcompute wrote: post #159

Well, the answer to that is simple. #boycottgitlab I am working at a European company where the amount of Russian engineers is constantly increasing (similar thing happens in many of the bigger companies nearby). And they prove to be quite ok. So since today I will speak strongly against use of Gitlab in my workplace should such a talk begin.

If anything, I'll start doing exact opposite. So since today I will speak strongly in favor of use of Gitlab in my workplace should such a talk begin.

Maybe also prohibit people from certain cultures to use bathrooms and seat next to the “pure ones”.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#192

Post by nostrebored »

slackfan wrote: post #115

Dumb customers are dumb customers, but the bigger question is how bad is Gitlab's backend architecture that this is a concern at all?

Why are you assuming that their backend architecture is bad when these positions touch sensitive data much more frequently than a software engineering position in companies globally?

In order to effectively support customers, you need to make a decision into how much visibility you'll give customers. Alternatively, you give your support the even more unfortunate circumstance of needing to request sensitive data.

SREs need to be able to work with hardware and software and by virtue of needing to take decisive action are in a similar situation.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#193

Post by jiofih »

m0xte wrote: post #188
490d0aff0ee8 wrote: post #185

It's immoral to discriminate on the basis of fear, prejudice, and rumor. One client can demand that Gitlab get rid of Chinese and Russian nationals today. Tomorrow, a different client can make similar demands - aimed at the nationals of different countries. This makes no sense whatsoever, and will blow out of control quickly. Sanction programs are the established legal frameworks for such things: https://www.treasury…

If you look at the vetting processes in the defence sector they have strict nationality and background checks. Why should the same not be true for something with a damage multiplier the size of github which is basically carrying a big chunk of commercial IP in private repos?

I think that last paragraph is suggesting that GitLab could simply reject such clients - or better, direct them to the self-hosted plan where they have full access control.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#194

Post by MiZ10 »

hkai wrote: post #167

Even though things like this could hit me personally (as someone who was born in Russia and lives in China), I support this because my two countries are truly evil at a scale that no other countries can ever match.

Oh please little troll, you are from both Russia and China and you hate them so much. Give us a break

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#195

Post by jiofih »

ComodoHacker wrote: post #139
Iv wrote: post #58

Ok, that discussion made it clearer for me, and I am kind of behind @cciresi at that point: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/issues/5555#not... They have a customer that required the personal data they'll give to Gitlab not be handled by people living in Russia and China. Could be a group doing humanitarian or journalistic work. That's actually an interesting conundrum: you want to hire a company, need to…

>Could be a group doing humanitarian or journalistic work They speak about revenue, so I'm sure that's not the case. I bet it's a commercial company with sensitive data, probably gov/mil contractor with strict obligations to their customer. And someone at their management doesn't understand Intelligence 101: they don't reach for your data from the country of origin.

If I understood it correctly, this should be a nationality block, not country-of-residence.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#196

Post by 490d0aff0ee8 »

m0xte wrote: post #188
490d0aff0ee8 wrote: post #185

It's immoral to discriminate on the basis of fear, prejudice, and rumor. One client can demand that Gitlab get rid of Chinese and Russian nationals today. Tomorrow, a different client can make similar demands - aimed at the nationals of different countries. This makes no sense whatsoever, and will blow out of control quickly. Sanction programs are the established legal frameworks for such things: https://www.treasury…

If you look at the vetting processes in the defence sector they have strict nationality and background checks. Why should the same not be true for something with a damage multiplier the size of github which is basically carrying a big chunk of commercial IP in private repos?

> "If you look at the vetting processes in the defence sector they have strict nationality and background checks.

Why should the same not be true for something with a damage multiplier the size of github which is basically carrying a big chunk of commercial IP in private repos?"

I'm all for background checks. Those at-least try to give everyone an equal opportunity - and if you fail them, you'll know why and have a chance to challenge the decision. There is a due process - as opposed to having some random techbro creating "need to get rid of {arbitrary nationality} asap" issues and having a bunch of random employees debating it...

If by having "nationality requirements" you mean "being a US citizen" - then Gitlab will lose 50% of its workforce overnight. The same will be true for many other tech companies. You make it sound like the defense sector is enjoying the strict employment regulations...

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#198

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

burfog wrote: post #69
sytse wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! We try to be transparent by default and even when it is difficult. I think the OP is a good example of something that is hard to be transparent about because the decision isn't obvious and it takes discussion to come to the best conclusion.

Congratulations on taking a step in the right direction, even if it is a very small step. Nobody else seems to take the threat seriously, somewhat excepting defense contractors of course. I can understand being reluctant to deal with the full extent of the problem. Somebody from China, with a family in China and subject to Chinese law, does not cease to be a security threat by moving to the USA and getting a green ca…

I never thought I'd see this level of xenophobia becoming widely acceptable in the United States. For everything educated Americans loathe about Trump, the one thing they've taken on board from him is fear of the Yellow Peril - which is probably the most dangerous aspect of his Presidency.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#199

Post by antocv »

rutierut wrote: post #182
beyondcompute wrote: post #159

Well, the answer to that is simple. #boycottgitlab I am working at a European company where the amount of Russian engineers is constantly increasing (similar thing happens in many of the bigger companies nearby). And they prove to be quite ok. So since today I will speak strongly against use of Gitlab in my workplace should such a talk begin.

I think you are confusing them having something against Russia(gov) with Russians(people). They also clearly state that current employees will not be affected. Reading the motivation behind it and the possible dangers it would pose to their clients. I think it's very reasonable not to continue having sensitive data be available in Rus & Chi. What would you do in this case?

Gitlabs actions affect Russians(people) and not Russia(gov).

Their motivation, should they apply it to UK, US, Spain and France, should lead them to forbid having employees from those countries as well.

As a Swede, I would not like my gitlab sensitive data to be in the hands of US gov.

If you really believe national security agencies do not apply pressure to any tech employees just because they are X citizens of their X country - you need to mature a little bit more, perhaps read Snowdens book and look into what happened with Wikileaks.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#200

Post by antocv »

beyondcompute wrote: post #189
rutierut wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are confusing them having something against Russia(gov) with Russians(people). They also clearly state that current employees will not be affected. Reading the motivation behind it and the possible dangers it would pose to their clients. I think it's very reasonable not to continue having sensitive data be available in Rus & Chi. What would you do in this case?

I believe, that I am capable of discerning those things :) Though I suspect that we are over-thinking. Imagine Germany, 1935. “Company X will stop hiring Jews as it deals with stuff important for the military”. And the society be like, “thank you, company X, we are positively pleased with your transparency and shmamparency”. Are you crazy, people? I think, that Gitlab is the one that confuses Chinese, the people and…

They are not crazy.

They never changed from being slave-masters, imperialists, colonialists and racists.

Its the same elite class which holds power today in US and UK with direct lineage from slave-masters and imperialists.

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