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Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

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Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#191

Post by SamuelAdams »

commandlinefan wrote: post #168
ucha wrote: post #135

It seems that almost all the comments are about the downfall of MBAs. The actual article - not the title - says applications rose in Europe, China and quite dramatically in Canada. If applications rise by 9% in Canada while they decrease by 9% in the US, it's quite a good argument for the thesis of the author which is that immigration restrictions are responsible. It used to be easy to get an MBA in the US then get a…

Well, I know this sort of sentiment is usually dismissed as xenophobia but… where’s the evidence that this is a bad thing _for U.S. citizens_?

If it is international students that are applying elsewhere, that could lead to a drop in diversity at these universities. There have been studies that confirm students do better when learning with a diverse set of peers [1], but these studies were on elementary aged students. I'm curious if that applies to college / master's programs too.

From the article:

Students can learn better how to navigate adulthood in an increasingly diverse society—a skill that employers value—if they attend diverse schools. Ninety-six percent of major employers, Wells, Fox, and Cordova-Cobo note, say it is “important” that employees be “comfortable working with colleagues, customers, and/or clients from diverse cultural backgrounds.”

[1]: https://tcf.org/content/report/how-racially-diverse-schools-...

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#192

Post by bluedevilzn »

bitL wrote: post #44
Vaslo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have no idea what is being taught in Top 20 MBA programs. Many MBA programs are graduating people that get both heavy technical training in their program (stats, data engineering, coding, etc) as well as learning how to properly manage individuals with technical skills.

C'mon. My Top 10 CS school expected me to put in 60h/week and was pushing me beyond my limits most of the time. My "quant-heavy" MBA required me once to spend 8h/week. If you find MBA difficult, you are probably doing something wrong. Old-school MBA is about networking (basically drinking buddies for life), new trends are about connecting tech people with VCs to use each other to build something new and profitable. M…

Did you find your MBA valuable?

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#193

Post by ProAm »

appleiigs wrote: post #182

The same folks here who crap on MBAs, will also get super excited about Y Combinator Startup School, despite both of them teaching about business. Lets go through the Y Combinator Startup School curriculum and I'll put the MBA version in square brackets[]. Startup School 2019 Orientation: How to Talk to Users [ MBA: Business Communication, Marketing/Strategy ], How to Evaluate Startup Ideas Pt. 1 [ MBA: Marketing/Str…

Startup School is a new shiny wrapper.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#194

Post by refurb »

bobjordan wrote: post #61
aoveri wrote: post #50

Having started my own company and done everything from doing coffee runs for my team to writing investment briefs, I'm not sure what an MBA would teach me? Not being snarky, genuinely curious as to what benefit I could derive as I've always seen as something that I'd eventually pursue.

From my experience getting my MBA from Darden in 2008 and then starting my own businesses by 2010. The number one benefit was how it helped to build my professional network. Before, I was a shop floor manager in a few fabrication facilities in WV and Southwest VA in rural areas. Without my MBA experience, I'd never have a chance to meet people working at major Wall Street banks. I didn't have any finance industry exp…

These are options that never would have happened without my MBA.

Very similar experience for me. I had a science background, so an MBA was a nice way to get a very broad education in a number of business topics.

My path post-MBA would never have been possible without the degree.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#195

Post by chadcmulligan »

mathattack wrote: post #111

It’s easy to hate on MBAs, but unethical people are unethical no matter the degree. My general observation is most people aren’t good with finance or the numbers behind their business. Having a 2nd tier MBA Doesn’t help. People who list MBA after their name rarely have it either. People from top tier MBA programs have a fighting chance. They may not have technical or leadership skills but they can talk the language o…

I've met a lot of jerks with MBA's, its not the MBA though, it's just that they're jerks. Unfortunately there's no check for that on the entrance exam.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#196

Post by ohazi »

appleiigs wrote: post #182

The same folks here who crap on MBAs, will also get super excited about Y Combinator Startup School, despite both of them teaching about business. Lets go through the Y Combinator Startup School curriculum and I'll put the MBA version in square brackets[]. Startup School 2019 Orientation: How to Talk to Users [ MBA: Business Communication, Marketing/Strategy ], How to Evaluate Startup Ideas Pt. 1 [ MBA: Marketing/Str…

I don't see a lot of people crapping on the content presented at MBA programs. MBA-style case studies are actually pretty fun. The thing they're crapping on is the average quality of the people that come out of these MBA programs, as a group.

If the people coming into your program are largely pampered, entitled idiots, and as an institution, you throw away your old work experience requirements so that you can rake in those sweet sweet MBA loan / trust-fund dollars, then you shouldn't be surprised when you start to get people who can't tie their own shoelaces out the other end, and you'll have nobody to blame but yourself when people start to question the value of an MBA or when enrollment starts to drop.

Startup School currently appears to self select for a more intelligent and thoughtful cohort. This may change in the future, and I'll happily update my heuristics if / when that happens, but for now assuming lower quality from an MBA grad than from someone who worked through Startup School without any additional information doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#197

Post by suyash »

appleiigs wrote: post #182

The same folks here who crap on MBAs, will also get super excited about Y Combinator Startup School, despite both of them teaching about business. Lets go through the Y Combinator Startup School curriculum and I'll put the MBA version in square brackets[]. Startup School 2019 Orientation: How to Talk to Users [ MBA: Business Communication, Marketing/Strategy ], How to Evaluate Startup Ideas Pt. 1 [ MBA: Marketing/Str…

90% Marketing, 10% Misc - one could hire an marketing expert or learn on their own, no need for MBA or YC for that.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#198

Post by sieke »

aoveri wrote: post #50

Having started my own company and done everything from doing coffee runs for my team to writing investment briefs, I'm not sure what an MBA would teach me? Not being snarky, genuinely curious as to what benefit I could derive as I've always seen as something that I'd eventually pursue.

Certainly the networking is beneficial. For those not coming from a finance/consulting background, it's probably also useful to learn financial modeling techniques.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#199

Post by clairity »

jevgeni wrote: post #147
ethbro wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reorientation of companies, driven by MBA conventional wisdom, into shareholder-centric, stock-price optimizing machines has come at the detriment of building long term value and delivering better products to customers. Rebuttal? And let's center our conversation on the average MBA graduate. I'm sure there are schools with different approaches, but no true Scotsman doesn't seem like it would be productive.

@airstrike is pretty on point, but here's some more. A private business is always shareholder centric. Anything else would be schizophrenic. Non-profits and government organisations are different, but thinking that people start a business NOT because they want to earn money is insane. What you are talking about is the agency problem where CEOs manipulate financials of a company to reach their bonus targets. That's on…

yup, and further, the effects of the mba degree are washed out by larger order movements in the culture and the polity. like the cultural backlash that led to reagan and trickle-down economics. the lessening importance of agriculture, and labor migrating to cities. the emboldenment of the military-industrial complex. the export of manufacturing with the rise of globalization. the financialization of mortgage and insurance (especially health). these have all been driven (at least in part) by the chase for wealth, without regard to academic pedigree (or lack thereof).

you'd be closer to the target if you pointed your finger at large financial institutions like goldman sachs and the world bank/IMF. but even these can't singularly explain the business and economic trends we've seen in the past 50 years, much less the "rise of the MBA".

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#200

Post by airstrike »

sedachv wrote: post #172
airstrike wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really that generalized as you can pick 1 or more majors and focus on what you want to learn most. Not to mention each MBA school has different characteristics, attracting different candidates and campus recruiters. Stanford and Booth couldn't be more different if they tried. MBA graduates are also not fit for running literally any business. The only thing employers know is that if you come from a top 10 MBA…

> the GMAT is a tough exam It might work ok as a way to filter out people who had a poor quality undergraduate education, but it is not a tough exam. I got a 700-something score (95th percentile) in 2011 on my first try with less than 6 hours of preparation. The math portion of the GMAT was primarily about doing mental arithmetic, and did not involve any mathematical concepts past the middle school level. The languag…

Congrats, you're one of the smart people in the world. Managers don't really need a whole lot more than what's tested on the GMAT, math-wise. They need to be able to interpret business questions, have decent intuition and do relatively simple math relatively quickly.

As far as standardized exams go, the GMAT is rather challenging given the time constraint and the fact that the exam adjusts to match your skill level with each response influencing the next that is asked

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