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Collapse OS

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Re: Collapse OS

#191

Post by Koshkin »

7thaccount wrote: post #171
mellosouls wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already being done in some places, eg libraries and museums, it's called Digital Preservation, although it's for normal curatorial purposes rather than Doomsday scenarios. While the focus is on the data, it also necessarily involves access to original hardware at times, which is additionally also often stored for curatorial purposes in its own right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_preservation

I'm pretty sure the internet, PDFs...etc fail heavily next to the printed form in the case of a complete collapse. As long as people can read, books should be good for this purpose.

The thing is, in the case of the complete collapse "the printed form" will be likely the last thing we will be worrying about.

Re: Collapse OS

#192

Post by biztos »

garmaine wrote: post #28
jolmg wrote: post #17

Why Z80? Is it like the 2nd most common processor type or something? Where would one find a Z80 when scavenging?

TI calculator. Old school game boy.

Dunno if this counts because I guess it's the "eZ80" but it looks like TI still makes one:

https://education.ti.com/en/products/calculators/graphing-ca...

Re: Collapse OS

#193

Post by School-Cotton »

digitalsushi wrote: post #9

I was pontificating about my 401k fund and what I should do if I find it no longer exists when I need to start using it. The older gentleman who was polite enough to listen to me said, "It's ok guy, if that 401k doesn't exist, then neither will you". And so I think I will not stockpile any computers for later. I do like the engineering spirit of this however.

Civilization can withstand a surprisingly extreme level of collapse without most people dying. In the most horribly war-torn country I can think of, Syria, most of the pre-war population is still alive today.

If someday the US looks like Syria, your 401k will be worthless but you’ll probably survive.

Re: Collapse OS

#194

Post by drudru »

RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #185
sdegutis wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds great! Can we get all that with a less confusing syntax? That’s my main difficulty with forth.

The syntax is unfamiliar to most, but it's very consistent and learnable. The syntax is one of many aspects of the design that keeps the whole thing simple. The use of a stack to pass arguments between words makes the kind of "pipelines" which are common in CLI shells very natural. I can think of few, if any, other languages I would want to use interactively as a replacement shell without complex line-editing assista…

I wish openfirmware was the norm. PC BIOS and UEFI are horrible in comparison.

Re: Collapse OS

#196

Post by heurist »

undershirt wrote: post #180
headcanon wrote: post #46

Why does the author think the global supply chain will collapse in the next ten years? What scenario do they envision? Climate change? Will cost trillions of dollars and billions of lives, but will likely be played out over course of several decades. We will be stressing out about it but its not going to be electronics-ending apocalyptic Nuclear war? Please. The countries that have the capability are also level-heade…

> this prepper BS is just fantasy driven by a hyper-apocalyptic news cycle shlepping around clickbait Au contraire, it’s the belief that our system can continue like it’s doing that is the real hyperbole. Collapse is just baseline reality of civilizations. - HISTORY: Collapse is a property of every civilization we’ve studied. These people were as smart if not smarter than us, working with societies smaller and simple…

We're doing things all wrong now but we largely know what needs to change to achieve sustainability (hint: it's not more computers). Should a collapse come the transition will come quickly as well, depending on the style of collapse. Long-term effects of climate change are a different beast.

Re: Collapse OS

#197

Post by murderfs »

rwmj wrote: post #123
fernly wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no. I've handled parts of Whirlwind[1], a vacuum tube machine from just post-WWII, and the gap from that to a C-64 or any other circa-1980 machine is just too great. They were using discrete wiring, resistors and wires soldered to the bases of the vacuum tubes. The Whirlwind was the first machine to use core memory, and the 4K core memory unit is a box about the size of a phone booth. I don't know if PCBs exist…

They would see the "© 1982" on a chip and although it would be incredibly futuristic (35+ years in the future!), would at least know it was likely to be created by humans. Whether they could work out how on earth you place such incredibly tiny components onto a sliver of silicon is interesting. If the person taking the computer back in time mentioned the word "photolithography" I suspect they would have been able to…

I don't think there would be many copyright dates on the chips. They might think that Texas ruled the world from the TI logo being on everything, though.

Re: Collapse OS

#198

Post by cmrdporcupine »

fernly wrote: post #90
rwmj wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My novel idea (feel free to use it!) is about someone taking a 1980s computer back to the Second World War. It's used by the Allies to decrypt Ultra intelligence and is treated like a kind of holy relic - only a tiny set of "high priests" are allowed near it, fewer still can touch it, and because of its importance they go to extraordinary lengths to ensure it can never be damaged by anything from bombs to power glitc…

Yeah, no. I've handled parts of Whirlwind[1], a vacuum tube machine from just post-WWII, and the gap from that to a C-64 or any other circa-1980 machine is just too great. They were using discrete wiring, resistors and wires soldered to the bases of the vacuum tubes. The Whirlwind was the first machine to use core memory, and the 4K core memory unit is a box about the size of a phone booth. I don't know if PCBs exist…

I don't buy it; a C64 is simple enough that you could work out the functionality of most components by trial and error and then work back from first principles. You'd measure 5v TTL, and under a scope you'd see the 1mhz binary signal. From there, 74 series chips on the board would probably be the first to be identified, simply based on inputs and outputs. And once you did that, and knew that this was a NOR gate or whatever, you'd pop the top off, look at it under microscope, and start to work back from your knowledge that this had digital logic and you'd figure out what the _function_ of a transistor was even if you didn't know what it is.

The RAMs and ROMs would be fairly trivial to figure out, as well.

You might not learn the manufacturing process -- that really did take a couple decades of material science and physics advances. But the principles of the machine would be clear. And then you could take the knowledge of that and scale it to the electronics components available in the era. You'd definitely have a head start simply knowing that these things were _possible_, and getting a boost on knowing how a computer could be structured.

Re: Collapse OS

#200

Post by cmrdporcupine »

If I were to pick an 8-bit processor for a post-apocalyptic future, it'd be the single chip version of the Fairchild F8, not a Z80.

It was designed to be extremely simple and reduced in scope to the minimum of what a processor needed. It went into space. Radiation hardened versions were made.

The original version had its functionality broken up into multiple chips. That could allow for easier repairs.

I don't know how many transistors were in it, but I doubt it's more than the Z80 or 6502.

The RCA 1802 is another one I'd consider. In fact, it will likely outlive the human race entirely, as it's in the Voyager spacecrafts.

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