This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…
I would argue it was always like that. Some of it seemed to be actively encouraged by Jeff Atwood/moderators/senior users. You forgot another common one: "not clear what you are asking". I normally have to reply to this with "the question is in the final paragraph". Which often results negative comments and perhaps the question being closed. Or trying to edit a bug out of an answer, being refused because you didn't c…
A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies
191–200 of 333 posts
Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sometimes, "here's why you're about to accidentally put your head into a wood chipper" is enough to learn a lesson from.
If it were a wood chipping forum/chatroom, sure, but it's a programming Q&A... people might need the answer in the future. If you have the answer but would rather the person not do it, just put a disclaimer on top of your answer. If the question/answer combo is way too specific that there's no chance someone is going to to benefit from it the future, maybe it should die, like other posters said.
A common one I come across is people trying to track who's online/offline with window.onbeforeunload.
The answer is always "that's not reliable, you can't really use it for this".
A good answer mentions the alternatives - storing the user's last activity and considering them logged out after X minutes, using websockets for a presence channel, etc.
I see no reason to avoid the "you can accomplish your underlying goal in a better way" answers.
Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Stack Exchange could add a rule forbidding asking why .. that would make the outcome significantly more frustrating, as the only way to discover the real requirements is then to post an answer which the questioner regards as wrong.
SE is a collection of question answering sites, not requirements-gathering sites. The network has a borderline-psychotic devotion to the Q&A format. In that light, just answer the question that was presented. Identifying the "real requirements" is out of scope unless the question itself makes no sense.
Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies
#194Anyone else felt disconcerting about the reoccurring theme of platform attracts communicated generated content, only to shift interest/motive once critical mass is achieved?
The cycle certainly didn't start with groups over a computer network, but I think it's very unlikely that it started before written texts. So there's ~8k years window there. It's not literally timeless, but does feel like so.
Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think people don't want to feel like they're in some sort of social Darwin experiment where they have to compete to prove the worth of their questions. They just want help with their problems. As many have noted, there is a conflict between the goal of a wiki and the goal of getting answers to people. I speak as someone with a decent score answering questions, who had to fight tooth-and-nail for years to stop peopl…
That’s understandable. Anyone downvoting a question they don’t understand is wrong. But objectively, there is a very large daily volume of very low quality questions. People can’t be arsed to, or are unable to, perform even the most rudimentary search, and just dump their questions, often in terrible English (In my niche, I’ve seen a clear correlation between bad English asking and duplicates or lazy “solve my homewo…
I put a lot of effort into editing questions to make them clear. More often than bad faith, I see people who don’t have the experience to know what a good question is, or who really struggle to express themselves in English.
Often it’s only through interaction that I can tell if people are making the effort or not. Does SO need more people editing and doing triage? A different interface that bridges the gap between Q&A and wiki? I don’t know.
Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies
#196I have always found Monica Cellio to be a great moderator. If she has been fired then something is deeply wrong over at Stack Exchange.
First manager I've had, great guy and despite his shortcomings I'd work with him again. Straightforward honest guy, did he work well, mentored me well. Then one day he assaulted another coworker in the break room. Someone's on-the-job performance doesn't mean they are always and forever in the right. Given the lack of any concrete evidence posted but lots of hand-wringing and pearl clutching about vague incidences, I…
"We aren’t going to share specifics out of respect for all individuals involved but this is a site reaching millions of people and we have to do what we believe fosters a spirit of inclusion and respect. When a moderator violates that, we will always do our best to resolve it with them privately. When we can’t we must take action."
(https://judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5197)
So it look like we won't have anymore information, at least from the SE side.
The fired mod answered in the comments:
"Inclusion and respect are important, yes! I never said otherwise or did anything to violate either the current or forthcoming CoC (as best I understand the latter; y'all haven't answered my questions). Please read the email I sent in response to my firing. It doesn't have to be this way. "
Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because I only know Python.
That is a poor example. Rust and Python are vastly dissimilar, and one could easily be recommended over the other for various reasons. Python for portability, Rust for system oriented programming. To say you don't use rust because you don't know it is an excuse, and a terrible one at that. i would say the learning curve of Python is similar to Rust, why not learn?
Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
I deleted my account when I had a notification that a 5 year old question of mine was edited to remove a "thanks for any help" at the end. This was after the blog post stating SE had an unfriendliness problem and they would stop doing things like that. Edit: Wow speaking of edits, am I reading this right that Jeff Atwood himself edited the title to remove the word "stealing"?
It seems he does not enjoy being called a thief?
Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
I deleted my account when I had a notification that a 5 year old question of mine was edited to remove a "thanks for any help" at the end. This was after the blog post stating SE had an unfriendliness problem and they would stop doing things like that. Edit: Wow speaking of edits, am I reading this right that Jeff Atwood himself edited the title to remove the word "stealing"?
It seems he does not enjoy being called a thief?
Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a perpetual tension between those who want SE to be helping everyone, and those who want to curate a helpful resource. People involved with community moderation aspects tend to fall into the latter group. For the last half decade or so SE has progressively abandoned this latter group, leading to a lot of pent-up frustration. Some changes SE has made are sensible (e.g. striving to be more welcoming and more i…
> There is a perpetual tension between those who want SE to be helping everyone, and those who want to curate a helpful resource. ... This is the core issue and it's really hard to perceive unless you've watched stackexchange sites evolve over the years. There's a sizeable contingent of folks who truly believe in "the mission" of stackexchange and have uncanny strict interpretations of the rules as expressed in the F…
Stack Exchange is not really any different than visiting a stranger's home. SE has its own set of rules and customs. It takes effort to sit back, listen, and understand them without questioning them. Just accepting them for what they are without any judgment.
Stack Exchange has high standards for what it considers to be an acceptable question as well as an acceptable answer. These standards are quite different than nearly all other forums that came before it. It was their site and they created the rules. It's our job to play their game.
If I don't like the rules of the game that they've laid out, then I can play a different game. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of other forums where you can ask questions and get answers with less standards and barriers to entry than Stack Exchange.
One of the reasons SE emerged as the leading Q&A site is that they imposed these strict set of rules. They provided a very structured way to both ask a question (minimally sufficient reproducible example) and to produce an answer. Another goal was to limit discussion.
Packaging all these ideas together along with points and badges lead to its tremendous success. Getting answers to programming questions before SE wasn't nearly as easy. But their gamification with explicit rules worked better than that came before it.
If the first Q&A volunteers from SE did not adhere to these rules of the game and if they were not strictly enforced, then it wouldn't exist today. It exists precisely because these rules exist and were adhered to.
As a human being who uses emotional-based reasoning, it can hurt whenever an interaction on SE is met without the expected conclusion. When someone posts a question on SE, the expectation is that it is answered. Getting a question downvoted or closed does hurt, but it's very likely that these actions are just the rules of the game playing itself out.
This really isn't different than playing Monopoly and landing on the 'Go to Jail' square. It doesn't help meeting your goal for the game and can sting in that moment. Eliminating the Go to Jail square from Monopoly fundamentally changes the game. You can imagine more 'negative' rules from Monopoly being eliminated such that the game wouldn't even resemble itself anymore. And if such a game were invented, it likely would never have been successful. If I don't like Monopoly's rules, I can play another game.
SE is successful because there are a strict set of rules that restrict the set of content that can be posted. It is these rules that have lead to its success.
This doesn't absolve SE from criticism just like it doesn't absolve Monopoly from criticism. You are free to dislike any of its set of rules. But at the end of the day, you still have to play by the rules or find a different site.
This also doesn't absolve any of the people moderating, asking or answering questions, or commenting. It's possible to break the rules or code of conduct. SE has guidelines for this as well. As humans, there is going to be some failure to maintain civilized discussion. But, enforcing a rule correctly as a moderator that someone else might perceive as negative (going to jail) is just part of the SE game.