Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

gnu.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 426 posts

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#191

Post by zaphirplane »

malvosenior wrote: post #50
zaphirplane wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are wording the sentences to create a vague wrong impression Of what transpired Be specific about what he said that you find abhorrent This topic is uncomfortable and a lot of people stay out of it or strongly self censor. he didn’t.

> This topic is uncomfortable and a lot of people stay out of it or strongly self censor. he didn’t. This is my point. As the president of an organization it’s not your job to make people uncomfortable about things that have nothing to do with that organization’s goals. Debating what is and is not statutory rape is not a discussion that should take place in any professional or technical environment. This instance is…

Rms is an extreme proponent of freedom, the GNU software aspect is part of his larger beliefs. While not a follower most of what I hear is him talking from a freedom angle. Censorship limits his freedom

I can’t comment on the rest of your point because again you talk about the horror of the crime and it’s not clear what of what he said or did you find abhorrent

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#192

Post by zapzupnz »

lliamander wrote: post #160
zapzupnz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The complaints about stallman aren't a matter of thoughtcrime, they're a matter of entirely inappropriate behavior, not just once but repeatedly, over the course of decades Indeed. A lot of people leaping to his defence have only a very surface-level understanding of his past record and think the accusations are something new or recent. Nobody expects the people who change the world to be perfect, but it really doe…

I'm sure not all are aware of his history of inappropriate behavior, but some of us are. I think those of us who are bothered by his ousting are bothered for two reasons: 1. The triggering event was someone misquoting him and the media running with that misquote 2. The timing and manner in which MIT handled the situations suggests that they were hypocritically trying to deflect from their own complicity in the Epstei…

See, that's sounds like a fair rebuttal to the situation to me, though I'm not sure that point 3 really stands — who benefits from whom makes no difference to the matter in question, exaggerated though it is.

Point 2 is quite strong, though I wonder if they might also have been looking for an excuse to good rid of him for some time? I'm not suggesting that's true at all, that's just musing based on some recent politics at the place I work.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#193

Post by bitofhope »

donatj wrote: post #111
JamisonM wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not the Trolley Problem, you seem to misunderstand the issue. There is no binary choice here, it is not comparable.

> Is it okay for someone to murder a person if they saved more than one life before ? That is a yes or no question. That is literally a binary choice. Yes or no - is murder OK if that murder saves more than one person. That is literally the Trolley Problem.

That wasn't really the question, though. There was nothing there about saving lives _by_ murdering someone. It's more like "is it ok do do bad things if you've built up good karma beforehand by doing more good stuff".

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#194

Post by zouhair »

sn41 wrote: post #7

In the years to come, I believe free software will be recognised as one of the paradigmatic changes in how science itself is done. Now chemists and biologists have started talking about making data openly available and so forth. It's a shame that RMS has to spout forth on every issue, and in the current climate of outrage, science may have lost an important transformational voice. I think as a society, we need to cal…

I don't think Free Software would have arrived where they are now if it wasn't for the RMS and his specific personality.

Him, being how he is, is what made on of the big part of the success of Free Software.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#195

Post by diffeomorphism »

jimmaswell wrote: post #131

Free software misses the point of open source. Open source wants to make the world a better place without strings attached, while free software just wants to push some bizzare ideology.

Democracy misses the point of anarchy. Anarchy wants freedom without strings attached, while democracy puts limits.

Technically true, but "you don't get to take away other's freedom" to me seems an entirely sensible restriction and not at all "bizarre".

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#196

Post by marijn »

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #172
marijn wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't blacklisted for committing thought crime. The dumb Epstein email triggered a reevaluation of his consistent creepy and inappropriate behavior against current community standards, which resulted in a large part of the community deciding they didn't want anything to do with him anymore. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from social consequences.

There is another large part of the community that wants no part in the community as a result of events like this. I guess we will end up with two communities one focused on software the other focused on social justice (wokeware). It looks like the social justice community will get the code and trademarks. Fortunately thanks to RMS the code is available to fork. I guess things aren't organised yet but I and others I h…

The assumption that those who care about treating others decently can not at the same time be good technologists speaks volumes.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#197

Post by hdfbdtbcdg »

4bpp wrote: post #49
Frondo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The complaints about stallman aren't a matter of thoughtcrime, they're a matter of entirely inappropriate behavior, not just once but repeatedly, over the course of decades. This was the one that disturbed me the most: "Going to an RMS talk in the early 90s and meeting with him in person was among the worst of my experienced - I was fifteen, still obviously underage, and skipping gym class to hear him speak at a prof…

It's notable that all of these anecdotes are from back in the '90s and before; since I assume Stallman's accusers dug around very hard for material and this is the best they could find, it stands to reason that he probably has long since improved in that regard. Moreover, the same cluster of people among others has seriously been arguing ( https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-appendix... ) that a mattr…

All sensible senior academics keep their doors open. It is one way to avoid exactly these sorts of accusations!

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#198

Post by UserIsUnused »

schoen wrote: post #79
garmaine wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term “open source software” was invented by Christine Peterson in 1998 (edit: thanks!) to distinguish from GPL-style free software. Open source (inclusive of both) never really had any traction outside a few limited domains until the GNU project.

> invented by Christine Peterson in the early 90’s to distinguish from GPL-style free software Invented by Christine Peterson in the 90s, yes (though it was 1998); to distinguish from GPL-style, no. The Open Source Initiative immediately listed the GPL as an Open Source license, and the FSF had already described permissive licensing as free software (as distinct from copyleft licensing). https://web.archive.org/web/1…

>losing attitude Good ways to talk.

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#199

Post by trax »

ariabuckles wrote: post #6
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #3

That's what makes me so furious at the morons who deplatformed RMS over some silly devil's advocate defense of Minsky on an internal mailing list. The guy has an important idea that he put most of his life into developing. In the process, he made programming much more inclusive than anyone could dream about in the days of proprietary operating system with compilers that sold for thousands of dollars. So even if havin…

It wasn't just this incident. RMS alienated so many women from open source and free software over the last 30 years, and we've lost all of those potential contributions. He's been getting breaks for 30 years. That he has also done some very good things isn't a good argument for continuing to tolerate his harmful behaviour after he's been asked to fix it for literally decades, and hasn't.

> It wasn't just this incident. RMS alienated so many women from open source and free software over the last 30 years, and we've lost all of those potential contributions.

[citation needed]

Re: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software (2007)

#200

Post by lostjohnny »

marijn wrote: post #196
hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another large part of the community that wants no part in the community as a result of events like this. I guess we will end up with two communities one focused on software the other focused on social justice (wokeware). It looks like the social justice community will get the code and trademarks. Fortunately thanks to RMS the code is available to fork. I guess things aren't organised yet but I and others I h…

The assumption that those who care about treating others decently can not at the same time be good technologists speaks volumes.

I still have to testimony an useful contribution (or proof of donation) from those attacking open source projects for not using gender neutral pronouns.

I'm not young anymore, in my 40s, but I have hope that in the next 40 years some of them will stop being a dick and do actual work.

It's never too late to change.

Post reply on HN