Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I spent a lot of time ensuring the website would load quickly and I do away with a lot of "optional" cruft. There's no Javascript full stop, no stylesheets (all CSS is embedded in each page) and every page load is a single web request (with the exception of the screenshots page). Even the SVG logo is embedded in the pages! Writing it this way also causes each page to be self contained, a download of the HTML pa…
My main issue with the site is that in my browser i get the mobile version instead of the desktop since i do not use my browser maximized (i have a 1366x768 monitor). Isn't there any other way to figure out if i use a mobile phone instead of using the horizontal resolution?
Kiss – A Linux distribution with a focus on “less is more”
191–200 of 229 posts
Re: Kiss – A Linux distribution with a focus on “less is more”
#192In which world replacing removing Wayland in favour of X is considered KISS? We seem to have very different understanding of KISS with those folks.
X is widly used since 30 years. Its configuration (and security model) is well documented (xorg.conf). It is as simple as launching the X server using a simple command line and being able to connect any client (even remote) thanks to a single environment variable (DISPLAY). How do you launch a wayland server and how do you forward "display" (ssh -X or -Y) to launch a remote application ?
I am lacking a proper analogy here, but it isn't because something is old, and most people are accustomed to its quirks, that it is simple... Maybe Apache, PHP, or even IPv6 would be a better comparison? IPv6 is likely a very good analogy here.
Now, Xorg's "security" model is well understood, just like its security issues. xorg.conf itself is a configuration nightmare. You might be able to launch the X server with a simple command line, but that's just hiding complexity behind a command. I can do the same with sway.
Wayland is quite modular itself. You can probably use namespaces to restrict one app's access to the clipboard, if that's not a feature the compositor supports, for instance.
For network "transparency" under wayland, which is an argument X proponents often cling to (it has its merits, but was counterproductive for most apps), it is a matter of serializing the protocol+image data (that's normally sent trough shared memory), and deserializing it at the other end. That's basically what waypipe [0] is doing, trough Unix sockets. So Wayland can be used remotely over anything that supports Unix sockets, thanks to waypipe, that plays the role of a compositor proxy.
A lot more things are possible due to Wayland being properly specified. The first and most important being multiple, interoperable implementations. Just like the TCP or HTTP stack. That is a Good Thing™ in my opinion. Zero-copy is also simpler to achieve, as another example.
I am sorry if I sound condescending about network transparency for instance. But that was pointed out for so long, and it is even written in Wayland's FAQ. The only reason it was that slow to materialize is Wayland's slow adoption. Which might be in part due to people complaining about stuff like network transparency without understanding it, and making themselves impervious to reasoning, while actually undermining efforts to bootstrap the ecosystem.
> How do you launch a wayland server
A compositor that displays stuff that applications send it? Well, you just execute it. Then that compositor decides to merge that stuff together, or pick some of it, and displays it where it wants: waypipe sends it to a socket, traditional wayland compositors can render on a connected screen trough the DRI kernel interface, others such as sway can even pass the rendered data to an X server or wayland compositor.
> thanks to a single environment variable (DISPLAY)
Use WAYLAND_DISPLAY to specify a Unix socket, if supported[1]. I'll admit that I am a bit in a learning phase, so I don't yet understand everything about the various subtleties (I couldn't use that to start an app from one TTY on another).
So, this distro sounds interesting on paper, but I can't really justify this choice of their, and I am probably not going to use it unless their revise their position. Wayland really needs a bit of forced adoption, like IPv6, if we want to have nice things.
[0]: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mstoeckl/waypipe
[1]: https://wayland.freedesktop.org/docs/html/ch04.html#sect-Pro...
Re: Kiss – A Linux distribution with a focus on “less is more”
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nothing stops a user from packaging and installing these things in KISS, they just aren't included by default. I envision KISS as a minimal base in which you extend to suit your needs and not something you need to cut to size. As I state in the Philosophy; "it's easier to add things to a system than it is to remove them". A user has actually gone ahead and done this! \[1\] They run KISS with systemd, pam, dbus, pulse…
But for me that beats the purpose. You still end up with the complexity. Only now you have to add and manage it yourself in some other way, probably being worse off then when you would have started with all that complexity but integrated in one standardised package (distro). Imho, the issue is not that the solutions are complex but the problems we (assume we) need to solve are. Just making simple solutions that ignor…
That doesn't make the original system any simpler or more complex.
Re: Kiss – A Linux distribution with a focus on “less is more”
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that distributions patching software is especially problematic -- whether you consider it a symptom or a cause of fragmentation.
You're missing the point of free software. You own it and can change it how you like. It's not problematic this is how it was made to be. Here's two examples of how distros patching software has been helpful for me. 1) SquirrelMail (abandoned) patched to work with PHP 7.3 thanks to FreeBSD contribs 2) Abiword patch builds in the AUR that fix a broken default install.
I'd rather see that useful changes are merged upstream, or projects are forked. If this had happened, you wouldn't even need to patch, and this would save an enormous amount of manpower that is wasted on trivialities.
Re: Kiss – A Linux distribution with a focus on “less is more”
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
X is widly used since 30 years. Its configuration (and security model) is well documented (xorg.conf). It is as simple as launching the X server using a simple command line and being able to connect any client (even remote) thanks to a single environment variable (DISPLAY). How do you launch a wayland server and how do you forward "display" (ssh -X or -Y) to launch a remote application ?
As for display forwarding via SSH, you may be interested in this summer's GSoC project Waypipe[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20848334
Re: Kiss – A Linux distribution with a focus on “less is more”
#196New logo needed. The chopped off head is bad luck in parts of Asia.
I've been staring at the logo for a few minutes now and I cannot make head or tails of it. It just looks like a random squiggle to me.
Saving you some time in The Gimp, you can look at the logo on the Microsoft Github page, where the colors are inverted compared to the website: https://github.com/kisslinux/
Re: Kiss – A Linux distribution with a focus on “less is more”
#197What i am looking for is a distro where the only UI is through webpages. I had idea about installing a local Prometheus agent, cockpit and other modern administration tools, but it could'nt match all the features of Gnome 3. Especially, I couldn't find a webtool to manage hardware, such as Wifi, keyboard configuration, display, mouse, etc. Also, a very good, fast, and stable web terminal isnt easy to find
As someone who works in computer graphics this idea makes me sad. I mean I know web is the closest thing we have to a universal interface, and there are a ton of advantages to it, but the idea of moving more toward a world where every single thing you do on a computer has this thick layer of web technologies between the user and the hardware is just depressing. Like why should AMD and Intel even bother innovating if…
Re: Kiss – A Linux distribution with a focus on “less is more”
#198That logo makes it a non-starter in any organization I've seen in the last decade.
How many of those organisations feature smiling attractive women in their product advertising? It's funny how many companies are happy to use sex to sell products but god forbid someone see a silhouette of a bikini.
I don't know, but I also don't know if this woman is smiling because they cut off her head to get more breast in frame.
Re: Kiss – A Linux distribution with a focus on “less is more”
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is no issue of politically correctness, it's an issue of poor branding - if this is meant for a serious project, which I get the feeling the author intends to be perceived as.
It can be a serious project, and yet not aimed at corporate.
Lots of people feel that tech culture leans toward the objectification of women, so we're less inclined to use projects that use overtly sexual language or imagery.
For example, read the first paragraph of the Julia language community standards: https://julialang.org/community/standards/
Re: Kiss – A Linux distribution with a focus on “less is more”
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been staring at the logo for a few minutes now and I cannot make head or tails of it. It just looks like a random squiggle to me.
It was easier for me to make heads and tails of it after inverting the colors. Saving you some time in The Gimp, you can look at the logo on the Microsoft Github page, where the colors are inverted compared to the website: https://github.com/kisslinux/